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corbintechboy 12-21-2006 10:54 PM

Brainstorm
 
Hello,

I was sitting here while downloading programs on a PcLinux system. At current with the 70kbs download it's gonna take 1.5 hours. I came up with an idea while sitting here that if I knew howto program I would release a linux distro and use my idea. Now the idea:

Why not have when you install and option to donate like 2kbs upload to help the community? Like you get 5000 users of this distro who are interested in this, thats 10,000kbs upload speed to help the main servers. This could be something like torrents(?) but updates. I don't really know how it would work because I don't know howto program. The people I told about this thought it would be great.

I see alot of people coming on here looking for a project, here's one.

indienick 12-21-2006 11:36 PM

I've gotta say, I really like this idea, too!
It's almost identical to a P2P network (like torrents, Limewire, KaZaA, etc.), but the only things that would be a cause for concern, is that getting the distro widely distributed enough to make the update sharing worthwhile is a pro-bono marketing task on its own.

Aside from that, it's still an amazing idea.

EDIT: Instead of creating an entirely new distro, why not assemble a small programmers group, and see if you can present an alpha-version of a product to present to an already widely-distributed distro (or several). :D

tuxdev 12-22-2006 12:15 AM

I'm not sure what you mean, but it sounds exactly like BitTorrent to me.

corbintechboy 12-22-2006 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuxdev
I'm not sure what you mean, but it sounds exactly like BitTorrent to me.


Might work like that don't really know. This idea is for updates. Like lets use debian for example. You do an apt-get install ???, apt looks at the server site for references to people who have ??? file. site says these people at this ip have it, apt turnes around and downloades the file via what the debian tells it. The server does help with the download but the end-users that help contribute do as well. Kinda got a philosophy like bittorent but not really. This would be done for updates and software installs. This would make end-users seeders in a sorts for the updates. Like I said 2kb is a small amount to donate and would give great amounts of upload speeds the server never could give.

I'll put it in perspective:

You install this GNU/Linux. I am also interested in this distro so I download the .iso. After I install the distro I decide to update all the software.So I plug in the command to update. My machine contacts update server and server reports you have the updates I require, so my machine recieves the info needed to locate you and download from you and the server at the same time. Now put this in bigger perspective server has 5000 people who have the files I need but the server is swamped today because this distro just announced a whole bunch of security updates. So this server can serve me up a whooping 35kbs of download rate. My idea would also use the 2kbs the 5000 people are sharing to get the files I need easly increasing my download rates to max my isp can handle. Like I said thats 10,000kbs upload rate! Thats a very awsome number and would greatly reduce stress on servers.

IBall 12-22-2006 01:09 AM

It does sound like bittorrent, but as far as I know Bittorrent is only used at the moment for distributing ISOs and illegal movies.

I like the idea of bittorent being used somehow for downloading updates. Basically, once you have installed the updates then you can start sharing the updated packages. Instead of sources.list (for Debian) pointing to an official mirror, it could point to a torrent tracker, that tells the package manager what updates are required and which torrent to get them from. (something like this anyway)

--Ian

raskin 12-22-2006 04:32 AM

Bittorrent is not as good for updates as donkey - there is built-in search in Donkey and no need to explicitly think about everything - just put to sharde dir. BT is for ISO's. You've got me on your side - I've shared my distributed-in-source folder..

raskin 12-22-2006 05:07 PM

Wow, someone even downloaded bzip2, and grub has 142% upratio. A bit strange - I don't understand 1 request and >100% UpRatio, but nevertheless the idea is viable here and now. Everybody using any P2P, share all fresh packages you have!

Ynot Irucrem 12-23-2006 05:27 AM

I think it sounds cool, and I reckon the thread title would be a kickass name for it, too.

indienick 12-23-2006 11:06 AM

Ynot Irucrem:
I completely agree. :D

Ha1f 12-23-2006 11:31 AM

i get the whole 'sounds like bittorrent' thing, but i dont get whether or not you want a package manager that uses means similar to bittorrent to download files, or if you just want a stand alone client that downloads things, a la bittorrent...?

btw: if youre aiming towards the bittorrenty package manager, libtorrent is a good place to start (to anyone looking at this as a project). if i was working on my own package manager, i'd definately take this idea on...

f76 12-23-2006 11:50 AM

My newbie 2 cents:

Bittorrent is only fast when you have a lot of piers, right? And perhaps not that fast when u get to small files. Maybe u need an update manager/package manager that will try ftp if bittorent is to slow. Or another distributed p2p that works with small files? Then u need some kind of checksum check for each file? right? maybe u can get these of the main repositry. Maybe u can use Par2 that also can repair files.

Ha1f 12-23-2006 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f76
My newbie 2 cents:

Bittorrent is only fast when you have a lot of piers, right? And perhaps not that fast when u get to small files. Maybe u need an update manager/package manager that will try ftp if bittorent is to slow. Or another distributed p2p that works with small files? Then u need some kind of checksum check for each file? right? maybe u can get these of the main repositry. Maybe u can use Par2 that also can repair files.

here's the thing though: i linux community would undoubtedly yeild a significant amount of peers (forced seeding might have to implemented on the manager). plus, there could be seed servers, whose sole purpose is to seed packages. i get where your coming though. an alternative within the manager would definately be needed. as per checksums, that could be done/downloaded when the repo listing are updated.

vharishankar 12-23-2006 12:19 PM

I think that's why mirrors exist though - to help spread out the load on the main server and placing mirrors geographically closer to its audience while maintaining the integrity of the files being downloaded.

Bittorrent is great, but in reality I find it much slower than using mirrors that are closer to me PLUS I feel guilty about using somebody else's personal bandwidth without being able to contribute much with my own slow connection. And obviously being in a region of the world with slow internet connectivity, I personally haven't experienced any speed advantages of torrents over mirrors either because the bottleneck is at my ISP's end. Bittorrents are very slow where I live... because I probably have to connect to a guy who's living half a world away, whereas I'm much better off connecting to a Singapore or Korean mirror.

Ha1f 12-23-2006 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harishankar
I think that's why mirrors exist though - to help spread out the load on the main server while maintaining the integrity of the files being downloaded.

Bittorrent is great, but in reality I find it much slower than using mirrors that are closer to me PLUS I would feel guilty about using somebody else's personal bandwidth without being able to contribute much with my own slow connection. And obviously being in a region of the world with slow internet connectivity, I personally haven't experienced any speed advantages of torrents over mirrors either because the bottleneck is at my ISP's end. Bittorrents are very slow where I live... because I probably have to connect to a guy who's living half a world away, whereas I'm much better off connecting to a Singapore or Korean mirror.

well, ideally there could be seeding mirrors at location. plus, youd be getting seeders near you aswell. ofcourse, an idea like this might not benefit everyone. dialup users arent going to see that huge increase in speed that others might, but its a great idea none the less for people who want to speed up mass package distribution. mirrors get slow when alot of people want to use them, torrents get faster...

f76 12-23-2006 01:31 PM

Maybe it could be good alternative to use distrubuted p2p for "servicepacks" - a compilation of all updates since a distro release up to say last month for example. That would work for anyone updating a brand new install. And then the update program would find the updates necesary since that update.

And maybe only parts that are popular downloads would be included in files shared via torrent. The rest might as well run of the server, right?


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