LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 07-09-2011, 11:49 PM   #1126
Sumguy
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2010
Location: Rural Kentucky, USA.
Distribution: Slackware; Crunchbang.
Posts: 391
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeck-LQ View Post
I'm curious...

If linux were to charge a license fee for their OS would it do linux good.

Think about it, if some company took linux by the horns and market it aggressively and charge only a minimal fee, the company can make money and thus hire more programmers, do extra marketing and hopefully win some hardware vendors to linux.

Would anyone pay for linux?
Here's what I think: If a fee were charged for Linux, it would:

A)Probably deter people from trying it. (Although those of us who are familiar with it would gladly pay)

B)Would likely ruin Linux- as the developers would then cater to the Windows crowd- and make Linux more like Windows in order to attract the less computer-literate. It would get dumbed-down to the lowest common denominator.

I don't think it should be Linux's goal to try and compete with Windows and appeal to the general population who have little to no computer knowledge- but rather just to make it the best they can and with the most functionality, and let those who come, come. Many Linux distros are already to the point of being very user-friendly and capable of being used by just about anyone who's not afraid to give it a try....and yet it still retains it's powerful features.

I don't think it would do anyone any good to try and make Linux have mass appeal, because many of the people who constitute that mass would not be interested in using Linux's best features (Like scripting), but are merely looking for a way to IM, email, surf the net and play games...and while modern Linux distros could certainly accomodate them without them having to learn the deeper stuff, trying to seek the favor of an audience composed largely of such types would just cause Linux to become bloated, while at the same time bringing in a disproportionate number of people who would not be contributing anything. (Some distros already seem to be heading in that direction- which is why I intend to switch to Debian in the future, from Ubuntu 10.04LTS- as from what I know, and as far as I'm concerned, I am at the end of the "good" Ubuntu line)

If this were to happen on a large scale, I think Linux would merely become another Windows, and we'd then have to seek an alternative to Linux! When something goes mainstream, it generally signals the end of any real quality. I'd sure hate to see that happen, just as I am getting started with Linux.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 12:01 AM   #1127
MrCode
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Oregon, USA
Distribution: Arch
Posts: 864
Blog Entries: 31

Rep: Reputation: 147Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy
They more likely think that the problem is their computer- so oftentimes if they are driven to the point of finding a solution for their problems, that solution takes the form of getting a new computer...with Windows- and then the cycle starts all over again.
Agreed; many just don't understand the whole hardware/software dichotomy…if you really wanted to, I suppose you could use the car analogy: the car body/chassis is like the computer itself (the bare-metal hardware), and the engine is like the OS. Then I suppose you could say that the applications are like the steering, transmission, AC, radio/CD/MP3 player, etc. (I think that makes sense because you never really interact directly with the kernel, just as you never interact directly with the engine of a car [unless you're repairing/souping it up ]; all the kernel does is schedule processes to run, manage resources, and handle system calls, among other basic low-level tasks.)

Last edited by MrCode; 07-10-2011 at 12:03 AM.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 06:51 AM   #1128
SigTerm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 379

Rep: Reputation: 233Reputation: 233Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
You talk about Virtual machine and live CD? Perhaps you have forgotten that here we are talking about average people who don't live in advanced countries like America, who have got families and a 9 hour job which doesn't involve hacking, we are talking about those people who don't spend their lives talking to strangers on forums. How do you think my uncle is going to know about what is a virtual machine and a live cd?
Hey, once upon a time I didn't know what linux is, what operating system is, what is live cd, what is virtual machine, etc, and (at that time) I was pretty busy with other things. Still, eventually I learned everything I know because I was interested. So, how it is different from your uncle? Also, keep in mind that using live CD, virtual machine or installing linux requires minimal knowledge. Learning how to run LiveCD needs less than 30 minutes, the rest (virtual machine/installation) can be learned under 2 hours and you don't really need forums for that. We aren't talking about computer programming or reverse engineering - we're talking about a very basic knowledge that is easy to obtain/learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
But the problem is: When the average housewife/teenager/truck driver experiences poor performance/aggravation/"computer problems", they do not realize that those issues are being caused by their OS. They either put up with it....look for some kind of software/AV to fix it...or go to a computer repair shop- and even if the computer repair nerd explains the problem to them ("Some .dll and cab files were corrupted and their were some invalid keys in the registry...glaven...") they still have no clue and think the problem was somewhere else other than their OS.
People have a choice - to ignore (or "put up with") the problem, or to search for solution. Please note that you seem to assume that using another OS is the only possible solution, which is incorrect. The solution is to fix the problem user experiencing. Switching OS is the "last resort" solution (only in case of fundamental problem, which is almost never the case) since it requires significant investment of time. Even if every person were a computer expert, at least half of people (if not majority) would not use Linux, because it does not suit their needs. Linux is useful for programmers/scientists/netwrok administrators because of its license and availability of source code. But for normal user the only things linux offers is ideology and price tag. As far as I can tell, there's nothing else. All other features could be implemented on proprietary unix clone and many tools are available on other platforms, including windows (you can easily install bash on windows, for example, along with all other "power tools"). Windows, for example, has several platform-specific APIs that attract developers and result in exclusive windows-only applications. I cannot think of any similar technology on linux system.

Last edited by SigTerm; 07-10-2011 at 07:38 AM.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 07:17 AM   #1129
Dillinger86
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jul 2011
Posts: 7

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
whats the difference between a LiveCD or an ISO or a regular CD with an OS on it? and your rite I used a Vmware and it was very easy..but every-time i wanted to install another OS the other OS got lost or something I couldn't find it. it like vanished.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 07:28 AM   #1130
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 15,438
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001Reputation: 4001
A Live-CD can be used to run an OS without installing it, opposite to the "normal" installer-CDs, where you have to install first to run the OS.
An ISO is simply an image of a CD, regardless if it is a Live-CD or an installer disc.

If you use VMware or Virtualbox and want to have another OS installed without a previously installed OS getting deleted you have to create a new virtual machine and install it there. You can have more than one virtual machine. I would highly recommend to read the manual of the virtualization software you use.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 08:09 AM   #1131
TheIndependentAquarius
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,619
Blog Entries: 29

Rep: Reputation: 896Reputation: 896Reputation: 896Reputation: 896Reputation: 896Reputation: 896Reputation: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
Also, keep in mind that using live CD, virtual machine or installing linux requires minimal knowledge. Learning how to run LiveCD needs less than 30 minutes, the rest (virtual machine/installation) can be learned under 2 hours and you don't really need forums for that.
I thought I said it clearly, but I was wrong.
The point was not about how to "use" the virtual machine and the live cd. The point was how to "know" that something called a virtual machine also exists. AFA the using is concerned, the VM comes with manual pages and FAQs. So using is not a problem, but discovering it, is.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 08:17 AM   #1132
SigTerm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 379

Rep: Reputation: 233Reputation: 233Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
I thought I said it clearly, but I was wrong.
The point was not about how to "use" the virtual machine and the live cd. The point was how to "know" that something called a virtual machine also exists. AFA the using is concerned, the VM comes with manual pages and FAQs. So using is not a problem, but discovering it, is.
A fairly realistic scenario (question on a forum, in discussion with a friend, computer tech, etc):
Code:
Discovering existence of another OS:
Q. I'm sick of <os-specific-problem>, how can I fix that?
A. Try <another-operating-system>
----
Discovering existence of virtual machines:
Q. I wanted to try <operating-system> but the disk/installer said that I'll lose all files. What can I do?
A. Try <virtual-machine>
I don't see a problem here. It is fairly hard not to discover that info.

Last edited by SigTerm; 07-10-2011 at 08:27 AM.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 08:47 AM   #1133
jonyo
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: looking at VectorLinux 6.0 Light, PCLinuxOS phoenix
Posts: 195

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
anyone know about how much ram vm runs?
 
Old 07-10-2011, 08:59 AM   #1134
sycamorex
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: London
Distribution: Slackware64-current
Posts: 5,546
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
A fairly realistic scenario (question on a forum, in discussion with a friend, computer tech, etc):

...
I don't see a problem here. It is fairly hard not to discover that info.
You are absolutely right, but again you talk about (at least slightly) computer minded people. An average person who isn't interested in computers:
a) doesn't visit technical forums

b) discussion with a friend - well, possibly, but most non-techie people use windows and, hence, are highly unlikely to know/recommend linux. Besides, believe me or not but people who aren't interested in computers don't talk about computers with friends. They probably accept some annoying feature/bug as the norm and get on with their lives.
For example, I grow some vegetables in the garden, but I'm not really interested in gardening. I don't know why I do it. (Well, I hate tomatoes bought in supermarkets). Trust me I've never spoken to anyone about looking after them. Perhaps, my tomatoes might be juicier/healthier, etc. I don't know - I don't really care. Perhaps I've been doing something wrong for the last 5 years. I'm not going to find it out simply because gardening is such a peripheral part of my life that I find it not worthy to mention in a conversation. I think the same applies to people who are not interested in computers.
Last year I visited a friend who doesn't give a damn about computers. When I noticed her IE, I was shocked. There were probably all the possible toolbars/addons installed on it. It was hardly usable, but she hadn't spoken and didn't have any intention to speak to anyone about it simply because she thought that's how it's supposed to be.

c) a computer techie - probably the only time an average person talks to a so-called techie is when they buy a computer in a store. You can imagine how such a conversation is most likely to look like:

Quote:
Customer: What would you recommend?
Techie: We've got the most advanced, functional and secure system out there - It's called Windows and it's only £xxx.
Customer: Ok, i'll take it.
Techie: In order to utilise its full potential you need to buy some additional programs like antivirus, MS Office and let's not forget about an extra 2 year warranty so that you wouldn't have to worry about any technical stuff. After all, sir/madam, you've got more important things to do.

Last edited by sycamorex; 07-10-2011 at 10:19 AM. Reason: staff != stuff
 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:06 AM   #1135
MTK358
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,443
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyo View Post
anyone know about how much ram vm runs?
??????????????
 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:14 AM   #1136
jonyo
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: looking at VectorLinux 6.0 Light, PCLinuxOS phoenix
Posts: 195

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
c) a computer techie - probably the only time an average person talks to a so-called techie is when they buy a computer in a store. You can imagine how such a conversation is most likely to look like:
Quote:
Customer: What would you recommend?
Techie: We've got the most advanced, functional and secure system out there - It's called Windows and it's only £xxx.
Customer: Ok, i'll take it.
Techie: In order to utilise its full potential you need to buy some additional programs like antivirus, MS Office and let's not forget about an extra 2 year warranty so that you wouldn't have to worry about any technical staff. After all, sir/madam, you've got more important things to do.
often you even have to pay close to 100 bucks to set up the OS?!
 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:18 AM   #1137
jonyo
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: looking at VectorLinux 6.0 Light, PCLinuxOS phoenix
Posts: 195

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyo View Post
anyone know about how much ram vm runs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
??????????????
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/virtual_pc_g...22/473045.aspx

shoulda googled ..point being vm requires ram

Last edited by jonyo; 07-10-2011 at 09:21 AM.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:20 AM   #1138
MTK358
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,443
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyo View Post
You said "how much ram vm runs?", not "how much RAM should I give my VM?".
 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:26 AM   #1139
jonyo
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: looking at VectorLinux 6.0 Light, PCLinuxOS phoenix
Posts: 195

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger86 View Post
and your rite I used a Vmware and it was very easy..but every-time i wanted to install another OS the other OS got lost or something I couldn't find it. it like vanished.
which Vmware ?
 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:37 AM   #1140
jonyo
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: looking at VectorLinux 6.0 Light, PCLinuxOS phoenix
Posts: 195

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
You said "how much ram vm runs?", not "how much RAM should I give my VM?".
i meant actual ram to run the software vs allocated for the OS
 
  


Reply

Tags
64bit, cloud, linux, microsoft, windows


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Tutorial: Four Easy Fun Useful Things You Can Do With Linux LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 09-30-2008 11:41 PM
LXer: KDE 4: The Shiny New Linux (and Windows) Desktop LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 09-17-2007 06:10 PM
media server or other fun things. doralsoral Linux - Software 1 11-05-2005 07:55 AM
most fun & excited things about Linux woranl Linux - General 2 07-27-2004 08:28 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 AM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration