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Old 02-10-2011, 05:25 AM   #601
MTK358
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I agree.

Just because Microsoft is being unfair to spread Windows doesn't mean Linux should be spread unfairly. I always thought that one of the reasons to use Linux is to get away from this unfairness.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 06:13 AM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easuter View Post
Kenny, you need to stop thinking about ways that FOSS can be forced upon people and rather how the general population should be educated about the values of openness and "computational freedom". If you manage to educate people about the importance of being able to modify their own software/hardware (even if that means they have to hire someone else to do it) then the rest will follow. Trying to force ideals on someone will only create more resistance and harden a population's conviction to not adopt a certain ideology.
I hate it when people "evangelize" Linux or FOSS because that implies some form of irrational or religious support, not something well thought out and based on facts.

Google's android or chrome OS won't be the thing that "tips the tables", it will be a change in mentality by the general population. This is something not likely to happen in our generation unfortunately, so don't be harsh about it. Simply try to explain to people why you consider GNU/Linux to be the better choice for yourself and why others also think it's better. If your arguments don't sway your audience then tough luck...it's not something that can be forced.
Well said.
Saying thinks like Nazi-OS, Microsoft is the Fourth Reich, Steve Ballmer (or Steve Jobs) is the antichrist in a discussion also will make FOSS look bad. So it would be better to argue (if needed) in a calm way, directed to the facts and not with a zealots point of view.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 07:09 AM   #603
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How is saying that Android and Chrome OS have that backing of Google that can make them succeed even remotely close to *forcing* Linux on people? I'm only stating the truth in that case.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 07:13 AM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
How is saying that Android and Chrome OS have that backing of Google that can make them succeed even remotely close to *forcing* Linux on people? I'm only stating the truth in that case.
There were a lot of other things you said.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 08:37 AM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
How is saying that Android and Chrome OS have that backing of Google that can make them succeed even remotely close to *forcing* Linux on people? I'm only stating the truth in that case.
Kenny, I had to read quite a lot of posts before I wrote that reply and it wasn't that one thing in particular. It's your previous suggestions, for example, that people should be tricked into thinking that Linux has Photoshop or being an absolute hardliner about how you think non-FOSS companies should be run (when IMHO you don't have the experience nor demonstrate any understanding of how a publicly owned company works).
Following that, you haven't been around as long as others here to witness the almost yearly announcements of how "This is the year Linux will conquer the world!" or "This is the year of the Linux desktop!". Instead of that we now have all the hype about chrome OS which you kindly spam this thread with at almost every opportunity.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easuter View Post
... Instead of that we now have all the hype about chrome OS which you kindly spam this thread with at almost every opportunity.
Excuse me, but Chrome OS is Linux, and even more so, based on Ubuntu and having a fully functional Linux shell, with a full GNU userland, X.org, and even Portage (It used to have APT at some point, but it changed to Portage early in the Chromium development). So since it's Linux, it definitely counts as Linux vs Windows.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 11:45 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
So since it's Linux, it definitely counts as Linux vs Windows.
Nobody denied that. Read it in the context of the whole sentence.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 12:24 PM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
Excuse me, but Chrome OS is Linux, and even more so, based on Ubuntu and having a fully functional Linux shell, with a full GNU userland, X.org, and even Portage (It used to have APT at some point, but it changed to Portage early in the Chromium development). So since it's Linux, it definitely counts as Linux vs Windows.
Do you just skim over a person's post and then formulate your own version of what you think was posted? Please read my comment again.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 01:07 PM   #609
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Linux, and generally, UNIX and UNIX-like systems have some magic which Windows doesn't have. Only geeks loved this kind of magic. Windows looks to be easier to use because almost everything can be achieved by GUI. But easier is to type few or more commands in console than searching one preferred option among huge pile of settings.

But it's IMO.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 03:28 PM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
[...]based on Ubuntu[...]
NOT a selling point(IMO, of course)... I LOL'd.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 04:51 PM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudangel View Post
NOT a selling point(IMO, of course)... I LOL'd.
Same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
having a fully functional Linux shell
From the article you linked in the same post:
Quote:
Chrome OS includes a Bash-like shell with minimal functionality
If you link an article, it would be better to read it first.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 08:15 PM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
From the article you linked in the same post:
If you link an article, it would be better to read it first.
Okay, yes, I was able to prove that when I pressed Ctrl+Alt+T to open a terminal window on my Cr-48. However, this wasn't the case when I first tested Chromium back in November 2009.
 
Old 02-11-2011, 06:42 AM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
...Chrome OS...
IMO, although possibility of Chrome OS "making a difference" and "tipping the balance" is non-zero, it is still unlikely that it will happen. Only time will tell if Chrome OS will change anything.

Google had many failed products, which means that Chrome OS could be next Google blunder.
Another problem is that it looks like Chrome OS doesn't do anything interesting/unique that isn't available on other platforms - you already can browse the web from traditional notebooks/smartphones, so why would you choose chrome instead of them? Being web-oriented platform means that without internet connection (wireless internet isn't everywhere on the planet, you know) it is just an expensive paperweight with linux on it. "the keyboard has many shortcuts" isn't enough reason to use it either - on both linux/windows you already can assign keyboard hotkeys(chords) for launching programs, and when it is already possible to configure system in such way that you'll be launch 50 different programs with one keyboard chord on standard 104..109 key keyboard, one extra multimedia key on chrome notebook doesn't look that impressive. So, who is going to buy it? Instead of Chrome, I'd definitely prefer traditional Windows/Linux notebook with longer battery life (ideally, one month without recharging. Or at least 24 hours).
 
Old 02-11-2011, 10:20 PM   #614
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And here's how I think Chrome OS *will* turn the tables:
  • The reason why most Web browsers are free is because they are heavily supported by ads.
  • As such, even though Chrome OS is free, Google is still making money off of it.
  • There also is plenty of shareware, trialware, and proprietary freeware on the Chrome Web Store that can easily be used for Chrome OS OEMs to make money on. Also, Chrome OS "crapware" is easy to create, since most Chrome OS software is as a service.
  • Therefore, it will go as follows:
    • The OEMs install Chrome OS, and install most of the "crapware" that normally gets installed on Windows systems, since it is (1) so easy for people to develop and (2) easy for people to make money off of.
    • The OS is free besides. Combine this with all the ads on the Internet that companies make money off of, along with ads inside apps (like there is on Android), and adware that the PC manufacturers can install inside Chrome and that companies can make millions more dollars off of, and companies will be able to profit more.
    • As such, because corporations will profit more when they install Chrome OS, the hardware manufacturers will be able to sell Chrome OS devices at a ridiculously cheap price. Therefore, people will be able to flock to it like crazy.
    • The people will choose the $50 Chrome OS devices hands-down over the $500 Windows PCs, and Microsoft's market share will be undermined
    • This in turn will cause people to support Chrome OS more, selling more and more software that can easily be used by PC manufacturers to make money.
    • And this will cause an endless loop of support, obtain, support.

Now I don't know about you, but this certainly sounds reasonable to me.

Last edited by Kenny_Strawn; 02-11-2011 at 10:33 PM.
 
Old 02-11-2011, 11:29 PM   #615
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It sounds like fantastical idealism to me. Remember when netbooks came out at first? They had ubuntu on them. People said the same things then that you are saying now, just substitute ubuntu for chrome OS.

Is the world now full of linux? Is microsoft bankrupt, laying on the ground, shaking its fist at the sky going "why god, why??"

NO.

Everything is exactly the same. Its going to be the same with chrome OS. Do you honestly think that the biggest computer company is not going to create a response to something that is a threat? And what do you think people will buy? The cheap chrome OS book, or the equally cheap windows book, with an OS that theyre familiar with. If history repeats itself, we can look back what, 3 years?

What did people end up buying, when microsoft responded to the ubuntu netbooks? The cheap netbook with ubuntu, or the equally cheap netbook with xp or win7?
 
  


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