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Old 03-03-2008, 09:22 AM   #1
mtlhd
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Cool Avoiding ASP.Net in the workforce...is it possible?


I am currently in a class for ASP.Net
What a nightmare. I can't believe how badly Microsoft over-complicated a Web Designer's job with the new ASP set up. I can't wait until the class is over, so I hopefully (praying on this one) don't have to use that garbage again.

Web Developers, is it possible for me to continue climbing the money ladder while sticking to PHP/Apache?

I know the School is shoving ASP.Net down our throats telling us that is where all the high paying jobs are.

I don't want to believe that, I don't see why PHP/Apache can't compete with ASP.Net/IIS for larger accounts. Especially now with the release of PHP 5...hurrah for OOP PHP !!!!!

So fellow Linux loving Web Developers, any one have any information on the matter? I seriously think I will end up on dope if I had to fight with ASP.Net on a daily basis.
 
Old 03-03-2008, 09:54 AM   #2
Dox Systems - Brian
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I'm truly surprised (and disappointed by) how much ASP.Net has taken over. I didn't like it when it first came out and have thus avoided all things .Net. However, since it's pretty much what everyone around here is doing, I've resigned myself to learning (re-learning?) it this year...
 
Old 03-03-2008, 10:54 AM   #3
mtlhd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dox Systems - Brian View Post
I'm truly surprised (and disappointed by) how much ASP.Net has taken over. I didn't like it when it first came out and have thus avoided all things .Net. However, since it's pretty much what everyone around here is doing, I've resigned myself to learning (re-learning?) it this year...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

There has to be some big PHP jobs out there......anyone!?

It is a sad thing that bloatware = bloated salary. :-(
 
Old 03-03-2008, 01:15 PM   #4
xkero
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Ebuyer.com (UK company) are looking for php/mysql developers: http://static.ebuyer.com/customer/he...hvd19jYXJlZXJz
 
Old 03-03-2008, 04:02 PM   #5
dickgregory
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PHP/Apache is not really intended to be in the same league as .Net on the enterprise level. It would be like comparing a diesel engine with a fleet of trucks.

Major IT shops might use PHP for a corporate (glossy brochure) website, but for putting business functionality on the web or intranet, they usually will use either .Net or the Java family of technologies. A lot of people don't like Java, but it is about the only player in town that operates on a similar scale as .Net. The myriad of Java technologies encompass a very similar world of functionality as .Net. It may far exceed it in some areas, and fall short in others.

.Net = One platform (MS), many (MS) languages): Vendor Lockin
Java = Many platforms (many vendors), one language (many vendors): Much less Vendor Lockin

I work for one of the largest financial companies in the world. The core applications in the division I work in run either iSeries RPG, or Java (on RedHat), or both. I don't know of a single active .Net programmer in my building.

I might add that I have felt the pain of the OP. I spent almost 5 years as a .Net developer in 3 different companies, all of them with the attitude that .Net was the only technology worth using.
 
Old 03-03-2008, 09:01 PM   #6
sundialsvcs
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The more people you ask, the more technologies you will encounter, each one backed by a group of pundits who will insist that this-or-that approach (i.e. "the one they know") is "the only one that really matters."

Trust me, though, when I say this: there is no silver bullet. Now, where does that put you as a student, and where does that put your school?

Well, schools can't teach everything. There isn't resources, and there isn't time. Also, the technology itself is a constantly changing target. Any course you develop and deploy is going to be out of date in a very short time. It certainly bears remembering that every bit of the technology and techniques you are learning right now will be mostly-obsolete within, say, five years; certainly ten.

They're not interested in "shoving" anything at all down your throat. They must necessarily standardize their course-material on something, within the various constraints they're facing, and who knows, you might strike up a conversation with the department chair about it someday. Certainly the Internet is full of articles addressed to the educational community on this subject.

So the best approach is to "go with the flow." Learn the ASP.NET stuff at your school. Smile pleasantly but non-confrontationally when people talk about "where the jobs are." Change the subject; it's not worth the fight.

Meanwhile, and on your own time, carefully observe all of the technologies you see: PHP, Perl, Ruby/Rails, and yes, ASP and (in general) dot-NET. You do not have to master all of them but you should make it your business to, even just on your own personal Linux box, set up and tackle some moderately-sized self-designed project for yourself in each of these languages. Spend some time on many web-sites. Watch. Absorb.

Try to notice what makes each approach similar and what makes each one different. "Gee, that's an interesting bit. Now, how would I do the same thing in ... say ... Ruby?" Try to find out.

You're never going to walk out of any school having "learned it all." What you do need to learn, instead, is how to think on your feet; how to effortlessly cope with constant and radical change. It will be your business to be able to work with "just about anything." Don't overlook or try to avoid anything at all.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 03-03-2008 at 09:05 PM.
 
Old 03-04-2008, 07:09 AM   #7
Dox Systems - Brian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickgregory View Post
A lot of people don't like Java, but it is about the only player in town that operates on a similar scale as .Net.
Any idea why that is? I've noticed the same thing. I personally *like* Java...
 
Old 03-04-2008, 08:06 AM   #8
mtlhd
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Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
You're never going to walk out of any school having "learned it all." What you do need to learn, instead, is how to think on your feet; how to effortlessly cope with constant and radical change. It will be your business to be able to work with "just about anything." Don't overlook or try to avoid anything at all.
You're Right, Sundialsvcs, and I hate it. Why can't PHP be considered on that level? I feel it certainly has the capability to do so.

The first language I ever Learned was VB, which probably was like that for most of us. Then I got a small taste of Java, but dropped the course because it wasn't going to give me any credit toward my degree at all. Maybe a Dumb move I dunno.

I am Designer (graphics, TV all that jazz) and so far PHP has been the friendliest toward that and I love it. It really sux it isn't considered on the level ASP.Net is or Java. I feel like in the ASP.Net Framework I am learning now, I am stuck thinking within the box and cant really apply all the fun design things I have learned from before. I am sure it is capable of having all the neat things added in, but at the loss of much hair.

So as far as mastering a web programming language goes, that probably is a waste of time huh? Just get a good grasp on a few instead? Sux horribly, but sounds that way.

Hopefully I'll get to cater to smaller businesses for a while so I can keep my sanity a while longer.

Last edited by mtlhd; 03-04-2008 at 08:18 AM.
 
Old 03-04-2008, 09:24 AM   #9
taylor_venable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Trust me, though, when I say this: there is no silver bullet.
Quoting Fred Brooks is great, but it stands to reason that some bullets are more powerful than others.

If you don't like what you're doing at your job, find another one. Or find time to do what you like on your own. I hate the way my school teaches most things, so every chance I get I write a project in Objective Caml or some other weird langauge, so at least I'm getting something fun out of it.
 
Old 03-05-2008, 07:42 AM   #10
mtlhd
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor_venable View Post
If you don't like what you're doing at your job, find another one.

Luckily, the job I work at now is Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP.....
I just hope to move up the ladder and make more money someday, and that seems to point to ASP.Net :-(
 
Old 03-05-2008, 08:21 AM   #11
Dox Systems - Brian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlhd View Post
Luckily, the job I work at now is Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP.....
I just hope to move up the ladder and make more money someday, and that seems to point to ASP.Net :-(
Interestingly enough, around here the big $ is in Java. There's not many Java jobs, but they're the ones offering big $, because there's so few Java people around. There's a lot more ASP.Net jobs, but the schools are cranking out all kinds of MS people, so the pay isn't so good.

On a side note, I haven't seen any LAMP jobs in the area...
 
Old 03-05-2008, 08:45 AM   #12
taylor_venable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlhd View Post
Luckily, the job I work at now is Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP.....
I just hope to move up the ladder and make more money someday, and that seems to point to ASP.Net :-(
I wasn't really trying to be mean about it, just that as with all things in life you have to find the right balance between what you want and what you need. Best of luck to you in finding that dream job.
 
Old 03-05-2008, 04:16 PM   #13
Jeebizz
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Its the same with programming. Everything is .NET now. Fsck .NET!! I hate VS, though VS pre-.NET was relatively decent. I miss the Borland compilers. I remember taking a C++ class back in high school, 10 years ago. We were still using the old DOS Borland compilers. Ah memories.

Anyways, if ASP.NET has got you annoyed, wait until you try C#, and lets not forget the ever annoying flash! Honestly 10 years ago this is not what I imagined/hoped the web would be like.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 08:25 AM   #14
mtlhd
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Its the same with programming. Everything is .NET now. Fsck .NET!!....... Honestly 10 years ago this is not what I imagined/hoped the web would be like.
Amen. That is where I see PHP keeping things as they should be on the web. I would call myself more of a scripter than a programmer due to the fact all the things I learn are web related...I didn't have much desire to code much more than web pages and maybe a simple business app here and there... MS seems to want to over complicate web programming with the .Net Framework.

As far as some one posted earlier about the JAVA jobs drawing more dollars and such, as those jobs far fewer because fewer and fewer businesses are adopting the technology? Are new businesses going for Java at all or does MS have everyone convinced they are the only way to go?
 
  


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