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Ztcoracat 10-04-2012 01:25 AM

Arguments
 
I don't mean the kind that we use in the terminal I me the disagreements we have occasionlly.

A few weeks ago I got into a somewhat heated argument in regard to my OS (Debian) and my friends OS ( Windows 7)

It was consistently explained to me that Windows works and I should be happy that it works with my printer. Indeed I'm glad that Windows works with my printer however everytime I turn around ( when I do use Windows) I'm being hit with agreements and policies and proprietary stuff when I want to do something as simple as play a video.

With Debian all I have to do is double click on my video and I have the choice of the Debian Movie player or VLC.

I've had Ubuntu Studio for 3 years and Debian for 6 months and yes I have freedom and I tried to explain the freedom along with the commitment to maintain my distro and it ended up in a big disagreement.

Do a lot of Linux users find their selves in disagreements/arguments with other OS users or is it just me?

PrinceCruise 10-04-2012 02:49 AM

Well, at one point of time, all have had.
But later at one point of time one can simply learn to smile and ignore.

Regards.

pixellany 10-04-2012 04:44 AM

Never try to teach a pig to sing---it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

I do NOT mean to imply that Windowsnistas are pigs.....;)

The point is that you will generally never convince a computer user that your way is better----and, for them, it might not be. If there is an opportunity, I will tell people that I use Linux. Occassionally, there is an opportunity to tell them WHY.

TobiSGD 10-04-2012 07:16 AM

Telling people that your OS is in any way better than their OS is the same as telling Xbox gamers that the Playstation 3 is better or telling Emacs users that Vim is better. It is of no use at all. If people don't get upset about the OS somebody uses than they will do it with your hardware, your car, your favorite sports club, your favorite drink or whatever.
Arguing about such things is of no use to anyone and just a waste of time.

Knightron 10-04-2012 08:13 AM

The time it takes to make a reasonable argument is not worth the end result. I learned that a while ago. I tend to keep my computer opinions and choices to my self. If someone becomes curious about what i actually do on the computer, it's a very annoying process of questions of answers. No one so far i've talked to actually knows what 'Linux' is, some rare people may have heard of Ubuntu maybe even used it for an hour or something, but that's as far as it ever goes. They think Ubuntu is Linux, never heard of Gnu or a kernel and Free software is just software that cost nothing. I don't use Gnu/Linux to educate others, i do it because i had a curiosity that evolved into an interest and then a choice. I love Gnu/Linux but i don't believe in pushing my beliefs on others: and educating others is just to much effort when the majority of people are to ignorant and couldn't care less anyways.

I should point out that my job has nothing to do with computers and the people i meet and talk to generally have little knowledge of computers, just use them to view Facebook ect. No different to me really except i wanted to know how they work a little more.

sundialsvcs 10-04-2012 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiSGD (Post 4796986)
... or telling Emacs users that Vim is better ...

But Vim is better! ;)

"Oops!" he said, quickly strapping on his asbestos bunny-suit. ;)

If you're going to start a technical flame-war, you have to do it the right way. Start with some utterly obscure and pointless technical "point" that only five nerds in the Universe could possibly care about, then stake-out a position on it that's as extremely to one side or the other as you can manage. Don't settle for "EBCDIC is better than ASCII." Argue for the letter Q. Or, point out that no one really needs more than 24 lines of 80 (green...) characters on their development screens. (They really don't, you know...) Something like that. Whenever anyone starts to shift the argument into the middle to cool it down, shove it back to one side again 'cuz that's where all the fun is. Channel your best "birther" arguments. If you're really good, they might even shoot a video about you. ;)

No, seriously ... arguing about things like that (other than the natural and inevitable superiority of Vim ...) is just a waste of time that could otherwise have been spent sitting in the local coffee shop near campus and wondering if you just got teleported into an Apple commercial. :)

H_TeXMeX_H 10-04-2012 11:52 AM

I've found that it's just best to stay out of arguments. The problem is that sometimes argument come to you ... in which case you should still try to avoid them as best you can.

I really do not care one bit about what other people think. You can think whatever you want, just let me think what I want in peace.

If someone would start arguing with me about how good Window$ is, I would just ignore them, or tell them to go bother someone else.

Now, if someone is interested in discussing, especially discussing theories, then I'm more open, especially if the person wanting to discuss something is open-minded enough. One cannot have a discussion with closed-minded people, one can only have heated arguments that deteriorate violently ... it says a lot about the world.

It's not so bad online, because you can just leave the situation as quickly as you can, and choose whether or not to come back. In real life, mobility is not always as great, and sometimes you still have to deal with the same people.

I don't believe that I can chance anyone's mind, nor do I want to. I do try to say the truth, especially to those who also say it. You get from me what you give, and sometimes a bit more if I'm in a good mood.

etech3 10-04-2012 12:56 PM

pixellany

Quote:

Never try to teach a pig to sing---it wastes your time and annoys the pig
I will remember that next time I am fixing a ms computer for the hundredth time.

Ztcoracat 10-05-2012 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixellany (Post 4796860)
Never try to teach a pig to sing---it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

I do NOT mean to imply that Windowsnistas are pigs.....;)

The point is that you will generally never convince a computer user that your way is better----and, for them, it might not be. If there is an opportunity, I will tell people that I use Linux. Occassionally, there is an opportunity to tell them WHY.

Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut and if the opportunity like you mentioned shows it's than that I'll speak-

Ztcoracat 10-05-2012 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiSGD (Post 4796986)
Telling people that your OS is in any way better than their OS is the same as telling Xbox gamers that the Playstation 3 is better or telling Emacs users that Vim is better. It is of no use at all. If people don't get upset about the OS somebody uses than they will do it with your hardware, your car, your favorite sports club, your favorite drink or whatever.
Arguing about such things is of no use to anyone and just a waste of time.

I see now that indeed it is a waste of time.

I really didn't tell that my OS was better I just said that I have more freedom. But I've learned TobiSGD.

Ztcoracat 10-05-2012 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceCruise (Post 4796777)
Well, at one point of time, all have had.
But later at one point of time one can simply learn to smile and ignore.

Regards.

Advice taken....smile and ignore is probably the best thing to do.

It's a shame tho that I can't share my Linux experience with others.
In fact I think I'll stop trying and only if someone is really inspired enough and shows me that they have good intend and want to learn Linux it's better that I just :) and ignore-

Ztcoracat 10-05-2012 01:14 AM

I'll use my energy more wisely as far as the discussion of operating systems go.

Sitting in a coffee shop near a campus and just enjoying the view sounds like a great idea.

I'll think twice before ever bringing up the word OS again; unless of course I'm here helping someone or someone is helping me.

Etch, H_TexMex_H, sundialsucs, Knightron, TobiSGD, Pixellany and PrinceCruise:

Thanks your responses!

hydraMax 10-05-2012 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztcoracat (Post 4796720)
Do a lot of Linux users find their selves in disagreements/arguments with other OS users or is it just me?

One of the problems I've run into is that the whole idea of copyright and patents are really deeply ingrained in the minds of nearly everyone, and the whole idea of FOSS goes against that grain. For example, I have a relative who doesn't know the first thing about computers or the Internet or how they work (refuses to even use them!) But when I told him about FOSS he got steaming mad and yelled at me, arguing basically that anyone who creates something has the God-given right to make lots of money off it, and to be the only one who reaps any of the reward. Software that doesn't have royalties and distribution limits attach to it just doesn't fit that model.

Likewise, I've met other people who don't know anything about programming or computers, but are convinced that the software and technology industry couldn't possibly survive if copyright "protection" and software patents weren't there to make everything profitable.

Also, I know a few people who admit that FOSS is better, but for whatever reason their income is tied to Windows or some Windows software suite. They usually argue that they "just can't" get rid of Windows.

Ztcoracat 10-05-2012 11:31 PM

hydraMax:

I too have ran into a few folks who don't even have a computer in their home and refuse to even consider to use a computer much less the internet-

It's amazing how some view the tech world.

Thanks for sharing-

TobiSGD 10-05-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydraMax (Post 4798543)
One of the problems I've run into is that the whole idea of copyright and patents are really deeply ingrained in the minds of nearly everyone, and the whole idea of FOSS goes against that grain. For example, I have a relative who doesn't know the first thing about computers or the Internet or how they work (refuses to even use them!) But when I told him about FOSS he got steaming mad and yelled at me, arguing basically that anyone who creates something has the God-given right to make lots of money off it, and to be the only one who reaps any of the reward. Software that doesn't have royalties and distribution limits attach to it just doesn't fit that model.

http://linuxlock.blogspot.de/2008/12...kids-back.html


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