Am i right, wrong or just to strict in my views?
 

Even though its impossible, I dont like purchasing products made in China, South-Central America, or from some other countries due to the fact that:
1. Most of the world knows that child and slave labor is running rampant in China and the third world due to greedy and selfish corporations and people/consumers want cheap merchandise.
2. These other countries have almost no Environmental laws so that allows factories to spew whatever crap they can into the air and water.
3. These countries are taking Jobs away from workers in countries that buy those same products that are produced so these companies want us to buy thier products but dont want to pay us to produce them.

I do not understand how someone can buy a pair of shoes knowing full well that they are made by children, Its just wrong and this world economy crap is pissing my off. If American companies cant use child labor here well then theyll just use them in another country, isnt that just totally hipocritical?
and its not just the americans, all the world does these kind of things. What is wrong with the world?

Have you ever seen the movie, "Falling Down"? I'm sure alot of people share you're views but do you actually think there is anything we can do about these things? The only solution would be to close yourself (not YOU, but in general) off from the rest of the world because it's NOT going to get any better.
My 2 Cents.......
RANDON

Man, if we went back to bartering, then i guess it wouldnt be as bad... but who want to lug chickens and goats around in thier pockets just to replace the almighty dollar.

Nope, i agree... more power to ya.

Why not? More natural that way :D

p.s. I do not like your signature ;)

***** Harry of the day.. I cant help it, I am antagonistic.....

yeah, I noticed it a long time ago, on one of the political threads :D

BajaNick, I totally agree with radon's statement. People (,generally,) won't change their nature of wanting everything cheap and easy just to make a stand against a wrong cause. If people would stop buying from China, it would be a huge inconvience for them, as about 70% of the world's manufacturing comes from China. So, basically, there's nothing we can do to be able to convince millions of people to "shop" somewhere else.

Just my :twocents:

Jerry

I agree with you, Baja, and that is why I don't buy products made in China when I have a choice. Problem is, with many things, I don't have a choice. If enough people would refuse to buy products made in China, or voice their opinions to the greedy corporations that sell out our own people just to make a buck, then something actually may change. However, I believe that as long as the American public flocks to Wal-Mart to get their $59 made-in-China DVD player or $8.99 pair of shoes, then nothing will change. We have to change our fundamental attitude in this country, and from what I see, that isn't going to happen. People want cheap stuff; they don't care where it's made, which store has it, or whether it'll last or not, you just better damn well make sure it's CHEAP!

You are very misguided in this thread. South America does not really produce a lot of stuff to sell to US. In fact, most of computers and stuff like that comes from the US. They do, sell a lot of food to all over the world. Brazil is without any doubt one of the richest countries talking about resources. (and despite of Americans think, it's capital city is not Buenos Aires nor Rio de Janeiro). Big cities as Sao Paulo and Rio, despite the violence (which is not so far from New York City violence), are just as sophisticated as any other city in the world. Sao Paulo is a little behind New York and Hong Kong, for example, in terms of structure.
China produces a lot of stuff legaly as well. In fact, most of Japanese fabrics are situated in China, because Japan's limited space and high taxes, generating a lot of jobs...
Also, what would US do without South America food and Chinese electronics? Make wooden toys for children and eat spaghetti?

to be honest, if i see something thats in a shop that i like i dont care where it comes from or who made it

Gill Bates's quote above is definitely fair comment.

But recently, I read or heard something about some law suit's going on in the US, but brought about by some local charity on behalf of the local population.

It was to do with a third party local contractor, that had been doing some work on behalf of one of the multi national conglomerate industries (I can't remember whether it was oil or minerals), but the contractor had tortured, killed and generally abused the local populace who objected to their presence on environmental grounds (again, I don't recall, but it might have been Colombia where this happened).

Anyway, the law suit is based around the main multi national, having, by employing the third party contractor, legal, moral and social liability for the actions of the contractor inthat they failed to have proper corporate oversight of their "employee's" (the contractor).

Because the multi national has offices/presence in the US, then they CAN be sued in the US using the relevant parts of US federal law (though the theory being that they could be sued wherever they have a business presence(offices) for their actions).

This is something that I agree with entirely, because if the suit is sucessful, then it would have international ramifications in regard to stopping multi national corporations just shifting their money/power to countries that don't have the normal legal safeguards for the working populations enjoyed by the "developed world" - i.e. they would have to take care of their workers, whether direct employee's or contractors properly, and hence it would prevent them "taking the piss" out of their workers (sure they'd probably still move the "work" to the place where the labour is the cheapest, but it would give the workers legal recourse, to be able to ensure their own health and safety - which I feel is a good thing).

just my :twocents:

regards

John

I see a dilemma in this choice: (A) If you buy products imported from nations with no/bad environmental, and labor laws, you are implicitly supporting those things; (B) but, if you avoid purchasing products from such countries, these people will remain just as poor as before, if not poorer.

I like choice C best, of course: (C) Drop free-trade agreements and replace them with so-called fair-trade agreements that require tradings nations to enact basic environmental and labor protection laws while assuring other fair practices among nations of varying levels of development.

give every homeless person a home and a job when we are at it


just a point

I don't think its that great that countries force children,mothers,fathers..etc to work but..did you ever think of this? : If these children did not work... then their families would starve. In some cases the parents are sick or have a bad back or something and cant work so the kids do...if the kids don't work then the entire family dies.Hmmm......

And we cant give every poor person a house or job...cause for every person who is taken off the streets and given a house..there are 5 others to replace him. And we dont have enough room to give eveybody a job and house....

Think about that..

WB

i totally agree, and another point, why do terrorists burn american flags? has anyone actually taken a close look at them? they are white sheets with american colors on them! dont the know that some kids some where are slaving away to make real ones? and they are helping them starve?

just a joke, 1 of the comedians on SNL did a sketch about that once

Good old economics... :D <sarcasm>

Big question is how much is it worth to you to buy local goods?

And why are you stopping at outside the U.S?

I don't trust them folks from California. They probably have a sweatshop full of hippies making the stuff out there. ;) Dirty hippies are taking jobs away from the local folk around here. ;) </sarcasm>

In economics, one of the basic precepts of maximizing resources is that each area (in this case country) should produce what is cheapest for it, and trade those cheap resources for what would be expensive to produce itself.

So, now we take a basic two country system (grossly over simplified I know) of the USA and China. The USA is one of the chief exporters of food in the world, and China is a chief exporter of many manufactured goods (for the sake of simplicty, we'll just use shoes.)

At current, China can produce shoes at a much cheaper price than the USA (because of the lack of labor laws) and the USA can produce food far cheaper than China (because of the large ammount of arable land.) China makes shoes and trades them for food, USA makes food and trades it for shoes, and everyone gets things for cheaper than they could make them themselves.

So now, let's force China to make some labor laws. This destroys the competitve advantage that China has. The USA can now make shoes for basicaly the same price as China, without dealing with import laws and such. The USA no longer wants to buy shoes from China, and even worse, no longer wants to trade food for shoes.

The effects?
1) Shoes are more expensive in the united states, possibly by a fair ammount
2) China must survive on its own food stores, and thus food is more expensive in china.
3) Chinese shoe companies can't sell their product anymore, and thus layoffs/closings begin

To summarize:
In the US, we'd be inconvienced, and not much more. Maybe my GF would only have three or four pairs of shoes, instead of ten
In China, food would increase in cost while workers who are now at least working for pennies, would be fired completely. More expensive food + less money = starvation.

Now, having said all that, and probaby ticking a few people off. I'd like to say that I'm in no way a supporter of child labor, or pennies an hour wages. It's a horrible system, but I'm not sure if there's much China can do about it. It's a sad, sad situation.

-Dewar

...a bit off subject, but still kinda on track...

I would love to keep buying American cars....but here's the thing.

I have a Ford, that just replaced a Chevy. The Taurus is a 2001 with 40,000 miles. It has problems all the time. We also have a Honda with over 120,000. The Honda has ZERO problems. The Honda we had before that, had ZERO Problems. The Chevy I had before the Ford, had problems just like the Ford.

Here is what I want to tell U.S. Automakers:
I really would like to keep buying your products, but I cannot. I cannot because it requires so much out of pocket money to keep these cars running that I have no money for anything else at times. On the contrary, I have a Honda that I don't have to do anything to (just regular maintanence). It gives me extra money to do things with my wife and kid. I am sorry but I cannot just throw money away so I can keep "Buying American".

If you can improve the quality of your cars, while at the same time decreasing cost I will stick with you. Until then......you'll have to deal with my buying one Honda after another. I can get 200,000+ miles out of a Honda and I can't get but 80,000 - 100,000 miles out of an American car.

Funny thing is.....I was a die hard American car buyer until I bought and drove my first Honda. There is no going back now.

Have a nice day Mr. Automaker :)
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As far as the orginal question:

I agree. I don't like buying from countries that have kids making shoes for Nike and other companies. It's unfortunately really hard to find stuff that is not made in China, Thailand, etc....

I try.........but do not always succeed. ;)


Peace,
Whitehat

henry ford was irish! so it an irish car :p

Even though I agree with you somewhat. Shoes, like many other things, are WAY WAY too expensive in this country. I have no problem paying for shoes. Come on though.....Shoes that are made for pennies on the dollar and sell for $60-$100. Such a ripoff. What's sad is the fact that things don't have to be this expensive. It is all caused by GREED! We can show this just by looking at the price of cars, shoes, CD's, etc...

It's a shame what a mess greed causes.

edit: I don't know why I am posting in this political thread on a Linux Forum. I gotta stop this :)

>"Even though I agree with you somewhat. Shoes, like many other things, are WAY WAY too expensive in this country. I have no problem paying for shoes. Come on though.....Shoes that are made for pennies on the dollar and sell for $60-$100. Such a ripoff. What's sad is the fact that things don't have to be this expensive. It is all caused by GREED! We can show this just by looking at the price of cars, shoes, CD's, etc..."

True, but it's always a buyer's market. I can get "last-year's" Nike's for $25 bucks in most US counties with an outlet or discount store. However, just like computers, if you want the newest-bestest thing, you're going to pay a ridiculous premium. I think the $100-200 shoe thing is misplaced, because most of the kids buy them in similar places, then jack the price up when bragging to friends. Makes you wonder if the kids that are beaten up (or shot) for having $200 shoes are actually being kicked around because of the shoes, or because they were acting like twits.

besides food getting more exppensive in china, food would become less expensive here...too inexpensive, and our farmers would be out of work, since theyd be out of work, great resources that arent being used means everyone pays more and has less here or in China

most things in america are very very cheap! (apart from rent in big cities!)
u should come to ireland! god damn rip off country, so much so that the politians are starting to talk about price control!

awesome! support free trade products.
good stuff dont buy stuff you know is made by children or adults working in the same near slave conditions for that matter. america and the rest of the western world big businesses are really sickening in the way money comes before humanity for these "people".

it is hard (impossible) to disassociate your self from their products really, cos how can you tell? the companies go to great measures to hide the fact they are selling people such items. the world is screwed and its only getting worse....

cheers.
ben.

LOL
What are some examples of some things that are comparable to something in the U.S. that is expensive?