It's always interesting to see what people say when this kind of conversation turns up. And while I think it's important to have debates about this sort of thing (because any intelligent debate is ultimately worth having), in the end I don't believe the Windows VS Linux comparison has much real importance. Linux is really an extension of the old free Unix ideals which focused on technical capability and open-ness above all else. Windows is an extension of the old corporate attitude of holding a market share and making money above all else. These two points of view, symbolically represented by Windows and Linux, are not fundamentally opposite: earning money is not the opposite of producing quality software. So the question of Windows VS Linux is moot; it's not a binary problem.

History provides ample evidence to support this theory. Despite the "Unix Wars" and the rise of Microsoft, free software has persisted because there have always been developers who prized functionality and open-ness above making money. Just as Microsoft, as a business, will continue to strive to make a profit (as all good businesses will do), the Linux community as we know it will continue to work to create the best operating system they can. Windows and Linux (or more correctly, the ideals each embodies) are not opposites, and as such one does not threaten the existence of the other, or trump the purpose of the other. There will always be those happier with being a Windows consumer, and there will always be those willing to put effort into a different cause.

At least, I think so.

Windows may not threaten Linux, but Linux certainly threatens Windows. Just do this Google search and find out.

Ahh. OK. Sorry, misread you there.

Windows is good, you buy a computer the O/S is installed and off you go into the adventure...

Linux is not so good, you have find a copy of the O/S (it's not in the box with the computer so I need to get it from some terribly dodgy source) then you have to remove a perfectly well installed O/S and put this Linux thing on it, will it work? will the computer ever talk to me after this; no I don't think that sort of adventure is for me.

For 80%* of users it all boils down to convenance... Windows is there to start with.

*Okay that's not an authoritative figure, I just pulled it out from thin air.

Yes, the adventure of Crashes, Virus, Adware, being hacked... That's the price for convenience? I'd rather skip that adventure thank-you...

KC

If you want Linux without the trouble of installing an OS, go preinstalled:

http://www.system76.com

I'd say the percentage is probably higher.

Bill's dream was to have Microsoft on every computer in the world. Five years ago, what did most computers want to do? Check email and see porn. Nobody cared about security. If customers didn't care, Microsoft didn't see a reason to care especially if they couldn't make a huge profit on it. So Microsoft just kept on writing crappy code. Now that people actually care about security, Microsoft sees a way of making money with this Windows Live OneCare nonsense.

Same with Dell. Not enough people wanted Linux on the servers and desktop, so they didn't care. Now that they've done the math and realized they can make money off it, they will support Linux, just like they are willing to use AMD now.

It will always been an uphill battle on the PR side. MS spends billions of dollars doing ads, talking to Wall Street, etc, etc. The fact that Gates is the richest man is PR for Microsoft. Linux can't win that battle. Linux will have to win (as in winning) from the grassroots level. Big companies are quietly replacing their internal servers so they don't get a nasty call from some MS account manager. Thats how its happening.

On a side note, I use windows (and Outlook) and linux at work to do my job. My windows user has administrator access and its got a firewall and AV software running. Since its a work computer, I just visit the big known sites, like CNN, Yahoo, Gooogle, cnbc, etc...but I have yet to get any spyware, trojan, whatever.

Maybe thats what Linux needs: a PR campaign saying if you want to visit warez and porn sites, get Linux so you won't get infected with anything!

hmm, flour for bread and meat for roasts...or windows for some and linux for others...the comparisons are the same....
yes there are advantages to one over the other and we all have our opinions but lets forget which os is better and start helping our fellow humans, albiet a windows user or a linux user...at least linux techs do understand some of the security problems out there...I personally use linux because of security, i dont use printers(because i dont have things to print...lol..), i dont like wireless networks, even tho they are secure somewhat, and i dont like windows but still have it, even tho to me its like playing russian ruolette(and i cant spell)...but i really think we as a community need to be pacifists and just accept that some cant be explained to and others would welcome the security...gpl type applications are dismissed by people that either dont know what it is or they are into selling applications(and a gpl app will kill there market)... dont try to convert, the religions do enough of that, let people ask and show them pleasantly... yeah i preach linux but i also accept that some like windows and i dont blame them, thats what they use... i will assist them and help them find win apps that are gpl and try to save them some money or get a more secure system...
linux is not a weapon and we shouldnt really make it one...

Apparently you don't do much in the way of research. Let me explain something:

Gento has a very reliable server, and you can easily get the source to start installing from there (granted you need a 3rd party CD burner, but thats free as well)

Debian, Slackware, ect, are the same way.

SuSe you can buy off the shelf for about 100.00 and it is easy to install.

You don't have to remove Windows, but you can easily (I'll use SuSe for my examples from this point on) set it up to run on a dual-boot.

I don't mind people saying Linux has problems, it does, but at least get your facts straight first.

OH, BTW, SuSe comes with installation support on phone

I fully agree with you I run a dual boot laptop, but I'm used to using technology. What I am trying to describe is the way many people who have just bought a computer and are new to ownership feel. It's possible, sure it is possible, but to many it is daunting and they think why bother. Also from a psychological point they have paid for something (Windows) and so they want to use it. It is really very hard (getting easier but still hard) to buy a computer without windows installed as default.

you dont have to agree to the windows license when you buy a pc, and if it is already agreed to then you didnt sign any license...so not bound by it...
as for linux, well i get all my distros from a common magazine that i buy here in aussie..and its a british mag...easy name to remember too...LINUX MAGAZINE... has a new distro every month, so it keeps me upto date and i can play with the latest distro every time...its not the only mag available but its on the shelf here and thats the main thing for me...i'm also the one that buys it at my shop each month...
you dont need to pay a fortune to get linux but its nice to have a disc on hand to try...i download any distro i want that hasnt come out yet in the mag or dont have the right kernel for me...

From your tone it seems like you were some anti-linux Windows kid, so sorry if anything I said seemed a bit on the rough side.

That aside, I'm personally all for keeping an old comp handy and using it as a testbed. Never know if you might find something better out there, or can figure out how to make something you like better then whats already made

hey i'm a die hard windows fan...my home is full of them..one on the front wall, one, sorry three in the kitchen, one in the toilet(wc), one in the bathroom but not able to see thru it, have one in each bedroom and one in the lounge room...even have a couple in the shed...cant see during the day without windows, unless i put a light on...lol...so i'm all for keeping windows in my home...and Other Sorts of windows are good too, round, square, rectangular, and star shaped, all work the same....lol...

i think graemef's point is very well made. he's just saying, this is the fud which a lot of people really do believe. looking at the population, i'd say

x% (fill it in yourself) think that when god created computers, he created them with windows xp operating system. these people have never heard of linux. they may have heard of apple. the more educated of them grasp their crotch when you say unix to them.

y% have heard of linux, but still use windows. they are convinced that linux is unusable. they probably believe that nobody they know uses linux. they are of the opinion that computers are
a/ machines which think like humans do. you just need to point your mouse to the right window and if something goes wrong, it's because you clicked the wrong button (or maybe because of solar winds etc.), or that's just how computers are. they are not aware of the conditioning they are getting from their computers and how little power they have until something goes wrong (see b/).
b/ extremely complicated. nobody knows how they work. people who use tabs to format their word documents are one step away from being l337 h4k3rz (or however it is you're meant to write that).
(these people are also extremely proud of themselves if they manage to build up a lan. apropos lan, you can really impress windows people by showing them the networking capabilities of unix-systems. i have an open wlan in my house and anybody who lives here can log-in. for long complicated reasons i don't have an internet connection, so everything that i can offer people is space on my server and access to all the ripped^h^h^h^hpersonal back-up copies of dvds i have on there. so i go with my laptop to their room and open a secure shell connection to my server, add an account for them and add them to various user groups to give them permission to access/modify different files. this never ceases to amaze windows people)

z% use *nix for technological reasons. maybe there are software requirements. maybe they appreciate the speed, security and reliability of a well configured *nix system.

and most importantly:
w% use gnu-linux for moral reasons. (this is the group which i belong to btw)


sorry for mouthing off about the second group in my philipic, but that's the group which really gets on my nerves.

have a nice day


hold

Have you, or anyone here, actually purchased from this company?