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Old 06-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #76
bvanevery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fewt View Post
If I stopped to care what people thought about me I would never get any work done. So you don't like my style, stick with Ubuntu, they'll cater to you better than I will.
Thank you for making me aware that with smaller distros, the personality of the lead developer becomes a factor in "hitching one's horse" to it. I'd much rather work with more impersonal, more professional, somewhat more corporate entities to advance my business purposes. You are right that I'm not your audience.
 
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #77
fewt
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Originally Posted by bvanevery View Post
You are right that I'm not your audience.
+1 that was a helpful post.

Now I can get back to work.
 
Old 06-18-2012, 05:10 PM   #78
bednarjm
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Originally Posted by M4t3us View Post
Fewt already made it clear the name is not up for discussion. And if it does work against us (which so far we have seen no proof of, just people who like blurt out their opinions and call it information), good! We don't want that kind of people anywhere near us.

We're building an OS for the fun of it, trying to make it easy to use, while still staying true to the Linux community. You have a problem with our name being something you interpret as FUD-buntu, you might as well go suck on a lemon for the light of day we've spent trying to make people like you see our p.o.v..
This distro is going to go far with that attitude. I swear everyone on the Fuduntu Team has a bad attitude. I picked up on that just from reading the first 3 pages on this thread. Its going to hurt you more than the name.
 
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:11 PM   #79
fewt
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Originally Posted by bednarjm View Post
This distro is going to go far with that attitude. I swear everyone on the Fuduntu Team has a bad attitude. I picked up on that just from reading the first 3 pages on this thread. Its going to hurt you more than the name.
That certainly explains why we are #21 on Distrowatch currently, and have made Linux User and Developer 3 times in 12 mos.
 
Old 06-18-2012, 05:22 PM   #80
bednarjm
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Originally Posted by LauMars View Post
To be honest, I think fewt is coming across as cold and disinterested despite being restraint, and that's why I think this thread has gone round in circles.

At the end of the day, it's his project and his decisions. However I just hope he can appreciative that all the comments made have been friendly comments rather than negative criticisms (as some have accused). This thread really shouldn't be a "them and us" kind of debate in which it became.

I mean if you are going to be standoffish about every point raised, then it doesn't really incite support for the sceptics to try the distro (and it's the sceptics you need to appeal to as the others will just distro-hop anyway).

I'm not saying fewt should change the name just because randoms request it on a global messageboard. But when our arguments have been reasoned, a little "I appreciate your advice / options, but it's not a viable option at this point in time" or "Thank you for your suggestions. In an ideal world I'd love to find a name which everyone likes - but sadly that's not possible. However we've already gain a lot of momentum with our current choice so I'd prefer to continue with that name for at least the foreseeable future" would sound a lot more welcoming than "It's my name and I'm not changing it!"

I honestly do wish fewt and this project the best of success, but I just want to make it known that sometimes the sterile text of a messageboard can make users posts appear cold and disinterested (even when they're genuinely not being rude) - which is the exact opposite of the image you want to demonstrate when starting a new distro - and thus community.
Couldnt agree with you more!
 
Old 06-18-2012, 05:34 PM   #81
fewt
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Originally Posted by bednarjm View Post
Couldnt agree with you more!
[MODERATED]



Last edited by unSpawn; 06-22-2012 at 10:26 AM. Reason: //Image removed
 
Old 06-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #82
JeremiahY
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Originally Posted by bednarjm View Post
This distro is going to go far with that attitude. I swear everyone on the Fuduntu Team has a bad attitude. I picked up on that just from reading the first 3 pages on this thread. Its going to hurt you more than the name.
~10000 users disagree.
 
Old 06-18-2012, 06:26 PM   #83
bednarjm
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Originally Posted by fewt View Post
This guy seems to be doing OK:


[MODERATED]


exactly my point^

Last edited by unSpawn; 06-22-2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: //Image removed
 
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:27 PM   #84
bednarjm
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Originally Posted by JeremiahY View Post
~10000 users disagree.
~10000 downloads or users? You could be doing better.
 
Old 06-18-2012, 06:42 PM   #85
fewt
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Originally Posted by bednarjm View Post
~10000 downloads or users? You could be doing better.
We can count roughly 10,000 users.

We move 1.5-2TB of data per month from our primary mirror which sees 6,000-9,000 hits per day. Over at SourceForge (another of our mirrors) we see ~40,000-50,000 hits per week.

Based on typical activity I would ballpark that we are 3-4 times larger than our counted user base considering we have 7 active mirrors in rotation.

Concerning downloads (rough math) - Fuduntu 2012.2 32bit - 22,000; 64bit - 10,200. Keep in mind that it is a rolling release so the existing user base has no need to re-download the distribution for any reason.

If you look at LinuxTracker - an older Fuduntu release (14.12) is #6 in top downloads.

So, in your opinion we could be doing better. In reality we are doing just fine.

Last edited by fewt; 06-18-2012 at 07:01 PM.
 
Old 06-21-2012, 11:03 AM   #86
Kallaste
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Wow, seriously? Giving people the finger in a public forum? That's just ridiculous.

I came to this thread as a neutral and disinterested party wanting to learn more about a new distro I might genuinely want to try. I visited the website, the wiki, and the blog, found them a bit sparse, and decided I needed more information before committing to the install. Like almost everyone here in this little "niche community," I commend the efforts of open source developers and try my best to support these efforts, but I do need a reasonable amount of information about a distro to provide me with an incentive to try it. So I searched further, reading this thread in its entirety.

And now that I have, I'm pretty much disgusted. I don't think I have ever seen so much breakdown of reason and downright hostility on the part of developing team of what is supposed to be a legitimate linux distribution. These guys don't seem to see any problem with alienating potential users who come to them from a position of neutrality, which from a marketing standpoint is lunacy. But they claim not to care about marketing (meaning they do not care what strategies would help them reach the largest number of people), stating they are hobbyists wanting to reach a niche audience and that anyone who doesn't like their attitude can pretty much go &^%^ themselves. Yet they repeatedly site their stats of #21 at distrowatch and 10,000 users, so it is clear the number of users does mean something to them, after all.

As for the whole name thing, yes, the developers get to choose the name. Of course they do. But if I were to create a distro with a "something"-untu name, then I would expect to have to defend it. Constantly. That's just common freakin sense. And if I somehow had my head in the sand and it wasn't obvious to me at the beginning, then having to deal with comments about it for 2 years--as the developers have said they have had to do--would certainly SHOW me that people would continue to question it. The team points to the two years of explanations as a reason for frustration, but a reasonable person would see that the repeated occurrence of this simply means that questions and concerns about the name are natural and understandable. Indeed, the longer a phenomenon occurs with regularity, the more likely it is that it is a natural occurrence. It's just silly and unreasonable to get upset about this, just as it is silly and unreasonable to get upset about the tide coming in where you are trying to build your beach house because it has been doing the same thing for two years and will not leave you in peace. It is also pretty unfair for people who were asked for feedback and leave honest, understandable, and perfectly natural comments to be met with attitude, coldness, and hostility.

As for me, I was a potential user, but now I'm done. I don't overly care about the stupid name, but I care how leaders handle their position and deal with conflict. I see no reason to subject myself to the rudeness and unreasonability that will surely come if I decide to climb on board with Fuduntu. These guys will probably tell me to go screw myself like everyone else, but I don't care. For every person like me who comments on this forum about this, there are 100 who will read the post, see the lead developer acting like a child with his bird-throwing and his taunting little smiley faces, and simply decide they don't need the hassle.

For the rest of the people here, I suggest we leave this guy to his own devices to suffer the consequences of whatever actions he takes. It is what he wants, and it is also what he clearly deserves.
 
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:13 AM   #87
JeremiahY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
Wow, seriously? Giving people the finger in a public forum? That's just ridiculous.

I came to this thread as a neutral and disinterested party wanting to learn more about a new distro I might genuinely want to try. I visited the website, the wiki, and the blog, found them a bit sparse, and decided I needed more information before committing to the install. Like almost everyone here in this little "niche community," I commend the efforts of open source developers and try my best to support these efforts, but I do need a reasonable amount of information about a distro to provide me with an incentive to try it. So I searched further, reading this thread in its entirety.

And now that I have, I'm pretty much disgusted. I don't think I have ever seen so much breakdown of reason and downright hostility on the part of developing team of what is supposed to be a legitimate linux distribution. These guys don't seem to see any problem with alienating potential users who come to them from a position of neutrality, which from a marketing standpoint is lunacy. But they claim not to care about marketing (meaning they do not care what strategies would help them reach the largest number of people), stating they are hobbyists wanting to reach a niche audience and that anyone who doesn't like their attitude can pretty much go &^%^ themselves. Yet they repeatedly site their stats of #21 at distrowatch and 10,000 users, so it is clear the number of users does mean something to them, after all.

As for the whole name thing, yes, the developers get to choose the name. Of course they do. But if I were to create a distro with a "something"-untu name, then I would expect to have to defend it. Constantly. That's just common freakin sense. And if I somehow had my head in the sand and it wasn't obvious to me at the beginning, then having to deal with comments about it for 2 years--as the developers have said they have had to do--would certainly SHOW me that people would continue to question it. The team points to the two years of explanations as a reason for frustration, but a reasonable person would see that the repeated occurrence of this simply means that questions and concerns about the name are natural and understandable. Indeed, the longer a phenomenon occurs with regularity, the more likely it is that it is a natural occurrence. It's just silly and unreasonable to get upset about this, just as it is silly and unreasonable to get upset about the tide coming in where you are trying to build your beach house because it has been doing the same thing for two years and will not leave you in peace. It is also pretty unfair for people who were asked for feedback and leave honest, understandable, and perfectly natural comments to be met with attitude, coldness, and hostility.

As for me, I was a potential user, but now I'm done. I don't overly care about the stupid name, but I care how leaders handle their position and deal with conflict. I see no reason to subject myself to the rudeness and unreasonability that will surely come if I decide to climb on board with Fuduntu. These guys will probably tell me to go screw myself like everyone else, but I don't care. For every person like me who comments on this forum about this, there are 100 who will read the post, see the lead developer acting like a child with his bird-throwing and his taunting little smiley faces, and simply decide they don't need the hassle.

For the rest of the people here, I suggest we leave this guy to his own devices to suffer the consequences of whatever actions he takes. It is what he wants, and it is also what he clearly deserves.
Pro-tip. That's Linus Torvald's finger you're looking at. The Creator of Linux. Not Fewt.
 
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #88
fewt
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Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
Wow, seriously? Giving people the finger in a public forum? That's just ridiculous.
Do you have any idea who that is or why I linked it? It's Linus. Now look at the trollface at the bottom and realize it was a joke.

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
And now that I have, I'm pretty much disgusted. I don't think I have ever seen so much breakdown of reason and downright hostility on the part of developing team of what is supposed to be a legitimate linux distribution. These guys don't seem to see any problem with alienating potential users who come to them from a position of neutrality, which from a marketing standpoint is lunacy. But they claim not to care about marketing (meaning they do not care what strategies would help them reach the largest number of people), stating they are hobbyists wanting to reach a niche audience and that anyone who doesn't like their attitude can pretty much go &^%^ themselves. Yet they repeatedly site their stats of #21 at distrowatch and 10,000 users, so it is clear the number of users does mean something to them, after all.
Why are you disgusted? Is it because we have made decisions that a couple of people in a forum don't like, and we aren't wavering on them?

Sorry. The comments don't come from a position of neutrality. They come with a bias. Even some of the latter comments are from a purely silly standpoint of "you aren't telling us what we want to hear".

If that means we alienate a couple of people, ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
As for the whole name thing, yes, the developers get to choose the name. Of course they do. But if I were to create a distro with a "something"-untu name, then I would expect to have to defend it. Constantly. That's just common freakin sense.
Common freakin sense dictates that if you don't like it, don't use it. It also dictates that if you have put forth zero effort into it, you don't get a vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
And if I somehow had my head in the sand and it wasn't obvious to me at the beginning, then having to deal with comments about it for 2 years--as the developers have said they have had to do--would certainly SHOW me that people would continue to question it.
A few people do, sure. There's one in every crowd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
The team points to the two years of explanations as a reason for frustration, but a reasonable person would see that the repeated occurrence of this simply means that questions and concerns about the name are natural and understandable.
Still doesn't mean we have to bend over and accept what a few people in a forum tell us to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
Indeed, the longer a phenomenon occurs with regularity, the more likely it is that it is a natural occurrence. It's just silly and unreasonable to get upset about this, just as it is silly and unreasonable to get upset about the tide coming in where you are trying to build your beach house because it has been doing the same thing for two years and will not leave you in peace. It is also pretty unfair for people who were asked for feedback and leave honest, understandable, and perfectly natural comments to be met with attitude, coldness, and hostility.
We aren't upset, but it seems that you are. You folks are the people making a big deal of it, then getting angry when we snub our noses at you and say "tough luck".

Going to keep doing so too, sorry. It isn't hostile, it just is what it is. On the contrary, comments like yours are hostile.

If you don't like the name or how we develop it, use or develop something else. I certainly won't be offended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
As for me, I was a potential user, but now I'm done. I don't overly care about the stupid name, but I care how leaders handle their position and deal with conflict. I see no reason to subject myself to the rudeness and unreasonability that will surely come if I decide to climb on board with Fuduntu. These guys will probably tell me to go screw myself like everyone else, but I don't care. For every person like me who comments on this forum about this, there are 100 who will read the post, see the lead developer acting like a child with his bird-throwing and his taunting little smiley faces, and simply decide they don't need the hassle.
You weren't a potential user, you can tell this by reading your comment. Your only intent was to cause drama, which you did, but only for yourself.

I'm not acting like a child, you guys are. I mean, look how angry you all are because I said "no". Why don't you just cry a little and then get over it. I do the work, you don't so go back to your basement and cry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingNutria View Post
For the rest of the people here, I suggest we leave this guy to his own devices to suffer the consequences of whatever actions he takes. It is what he wants, and it is also what he clearly deserves.
Comments like this are why I have no problem telling you guys to go use something else. We don't want or need your drama.

Last edited by fewt; 06-21-2012 at 11:32 AM.
 
Old 06-21-2012, 11:35 AM   #89
Enalicho
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Ohai.

I'm a Fuduntu dev.

If you have a problem with our leadership, there's a simple solution: don't use Fuduntu.

I stand fully behind fewt and I +9001 every choice he has made so far.

Since when was making Linux distributions all about killing your personality and becoming another mindless business cog? If fewt stopped kidding around, I'd try to overthrow him in an instant. We may fool around a lot, but we get things done.

And as for all this childish bitching about the name - seriously? I haven't seen this level of nonsense since UF back in '08. Is LQ populated by children? Careful kids, our name is vaguely similar to Ubuntu in that it shares the last few letters with it! And watch out for those "fud" letters! I hear they killed a baby once!



NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT FUDUNTU! NOOO! NOT AGAIN! STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY! THIS CAN'T BE REAL! IT CAN'T! THEY'RE USING THE LAST FOUR LETTERS OF UBUNTU! I'LL JUST MAKE A BASELESS CLAIM STATING THAT THEY'RE STEALING UBUNTU'S COPYRIGHT AND SHUTTLEWORTH WILL TURN UP TO THEIR HOUSES IN THE MIDDLE OF A NIGHT WITH A UBUNTU BRAND AND BRAND THEM FOR LIFE!!!!111!



tl;dr - Calm the FUDdown.


Last edited by Enalicho; 06-21-2012 at 11:49 AM.
 
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #90
Kallaste
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I don't argue with children, but for other people who might be interested, of course it is Linus Torvalds. Doesn't matter. The intent by the poster was was obvious, and I'm sure it had the desired effect--which was indeed to offend and create drama. Not to mention that I'm pretty sure there is not a parental advisory on this site and as members of a community we need to keep things respectful and PG rated.

I stand by my post. I was in fact a potential user, and if I hadn't been I wouldn't have gone to the trouble to visit their sites or read this thread. Also notice that despite my specifically saying I had no interest in the name, they continue to spout the "we'll call it what we want and go ^&*&^% yourself" jargon. Pretty silly.
 
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