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Old 09-15-2005, 01:27 PM   #1
1kyle
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Warning --for Windows Laptop Users And Fc4


Not a real problem so long as you know in advance - I've done enough of these installs to be prepared for these surprises.

After installing FC4 you might find that the Windows CD doesn't re-boot again properly -- you'll get the message System setup is inspecting your hardware and then it hangs.

Now normally this isn't a problem as dual booting from a hard disk is fine --but I needed to repair / reset the MBR (master Boot Record) which can be done from the Windows recovery console --which as you all know has to be started by booting the Windows installation CD.


This is ONLY A PROBLEM IF BOOTING FROM A WINDOWS INSTALLATION CD.

Anyway the only way I fixed this was to start a SUSE (or other Distro install) -- let it format the partitions again and then hit System Reset / reboot before continuing with the installation. --I didn't want to continue the installation but I had to destroy the /boot partition that FC4 created so I could boot from the CD.

This allowed the Windows CD to boot.

Incidentally the Windows 2000 CD doesn't need a password to start the recovery console and can access all the Windows XP files --nice security hole Microsoft .

Just a warning in case you find yourself in the same position.

Cheers

-K

Last edited by 1kyle; 09-15-2005 at 01:29 PM.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 01:58 PM   #2
Matir
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That's odd. Though it's not FC4, I've used the windows cd to fix win* junk on this dual-booting laptops many times with an intact mbr and filesystems.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 04:21 PM   #3
kurtdriver
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"which as you all know has to be started by booting the Windows installation CD."

Just a minor point, but we don't all use Microsoft Windows (tm), and therefore don't know these things.
Happy computing, Kurt
 
Old 09-15-2005, 04:23 PM   #4
saikee
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I am amazed by this statement

"Incidentally the Windows 2000 CD doesn't need a password to start the recovery console and can access all the Windows XP files --nice security hole Microsoft ."

I have been rescuing XP's MBR so often at one time that I didn't bother with the original CD but just pop a DOS bootable floppy into the drive, boot the PC up and type fdisk /mbr.

All M$ systems' booting code in the MBR are interchangeable. Do you still regard this a security hole?
 
Old 09-15-2005, 04:51 PM   #5
Matir
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Or I can boot Knoppix and read all the files. Yeah, once someone has physical access to a machine, your security levels drop dramatically. Unless you use BIOS and bootloader passwords, etc.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 05:25 PM   #6
saikee
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XP if in a NTFS partition should be safe from Linux trash.

It is true that Linux can see every hidden file and access a XP partition even if it is hidden.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 06:00 PM   #7
XavierP
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More recent Knoppix versions come with Captive NTFS which allow read/write access to NTFS partitions. Once anyone has physical access to a server or pc/laptop, kiss all your security measures goodbye
 
Old 09-15-2005, 06:08 PM   #8
Matir
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Quote:
Originally posted by XavierP
More recent Knoppix versions come with Captive NTFS which allow read/write access to NTFS partitions. Once anyone has physical access to a server or pc/laptop, kiss all your security measures goodbye
... and start wondering what happened to the locks on the door.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 06:16 PM   #9
XavierP
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True. Or do what British spies do and leave the laptop on the train after you have had a liquid lunch.
 
Old 09-16-2005, 01:06 AM   #10
itz2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matir
... and start wondering what happened to the locks on the door.
yeah... that's the biggest security hole
actually those noobie hackers found out that when they have physical contact to comps they can throw it from the window(real window , not windows !) and the comp will make 3 flips and then automatically damage the computer.... PRO hackers heh?
 
Old 09-16-2005, 02:24 AM   #11
1kyle
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Quote:
Originally posted by saikee
I am amazed by this statement

"Incidentally the Windows 2000 CD doesn't need a password to start the recovery console and can access all the Windows XP files --nice security hole Microsoft ."

I have been rescuing XP's MBR so often at one time that I didn't bother with the original CD but just pop a DOS bootable floppy into the drive, boot the PC up and type fdisk /mbr.

All M$ systems' booting code in the MBR are interchangeable. Do you still regard this a security hole?

Actully the reason why I used the Windows 2000CD was because the Windows XP one ASKED for the administrator password -- and even though it was MY laptop with me as the only user I hadn't a clue what the Admin password was --I don't even think there was one or theire may have been (it came with Windows already installed --I used the CD from another machine).

Windows 20000 Recovery console is a well known security gap hence the reason why people are keeping the original Windows 2000 CD's.


BTW as for recovering via a floppy --a lot of computers --especially laptops don't even have them any more.

(Sorry for the Windows stuff on a 'Nix forum --but I do know a lot of people dual boot and the recovery Console is a good tool for fixing things like MBR problems.)

Cheers

-K

Last edited by 1kyle; 09-16-2005 at 02:25 AM.
 
Old 09-16-2005, 02:27 AM   #12
1kyle
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Quote:
Originally posted by saikee
XP if in a NTFS partition should be safe from Linux trash.

It is true that Linux can see every hidden file and access a XP partition even if it is hidden.
It's not the WINDOWS NTFS partitions that are touched --it's the MBR or boot loader --after doing a FIXMBR you will still be able to boot into Windows --it will straight boot into Windows --you don't need to re-install Windows again after fixing MBR.

Cheers

-K
 
Old 09-28-2005, 12:02 AM   #13
jrc720
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Windows CD wont boot after installing fc4

I have the same problem. After I installed fc4 on my labtop wondows will not boot and the cd wont boot either. When I try to boot from cd it says it is checking my hardware and then it hangs. Is there anyway to fix this problem without destroying my /boot directory; I think the problem stems from the fact that the /boot dir is first and only on the MBR.

-JC
 
Old 09-28-2005, 07:42 AM   #14
poochdog
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Hmmm strange, I had this problem also with FC3 so had to run the linux setup and remove all the Linux partitions and start again!
 
Old 09-28-2005, 09:51 AM   #15
KimVette
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Re: Warning --for Windows Laptop Users And Fc4

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kyle
Incidentally the Windows 2000 CD doesn't need a password to start the recovery console and can access all the Windows XP files --nice security hole Microsoft .

Just a warning in case you find yourself in the same position.
Let's swap the situation, shall we?

Quote:
Incidentally the Linux CD doesn't need a password to log in as root and can access all the files on the system --nice security hole *nix geeks.
Or if you prefer:

Quote:
Incidentally the Mac OS/X doesn't need a password to log in as root and can access all the files on the system --nice security hole Apple.
Both are false; it is NOT a security hole. It is a feature.

Here's the deal:

The theory is that if a "hacker" has physical access to your box, you're SOL anyway. The ability to boot from a CD, be it Linux, Solaris, IRIX, OS/X, or yes, even Windows, and repair the system unhindered, is a FEATURE. If your data is so sensitive that you have to be worried about even a physical intrusion, you should:

1. Build an environmentally-controlled vault
2. Place your boxen in the vault
3. Encrypt the filesystems in question
4. Lock the vault
5. Throw away the combination to the vault. No, burn the combination and crush the ashes, then mix them with water

Now it's fairly secure, but not entirely unhackable.

A reasonable person would consider a machine with good network security in a locked room with solid walls to be reasonable security measures. To cripple the ability to boot from a CD to repair it as needed (or yes, to reset the root password if/when needed. I don't care WHO you are, if you work with computers long enough the time WILL come at least once where you need to reset a password) would not be an acceptable "feature"
 
  


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