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Old 09-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #1
rmknox
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f16 acceptable video cards


when I installed f16 it said gnome going into fallback mode because your video card stinks

is there a spec that defines the attributes of an acceptable card?

is there a list of approved cards?

maybe I'll buy one if it doesnt cost too much and doesnt use much power.

I'm not into graphics - use my computer to write - program - read the web - store my photos; but curious to see what I'm "missing"
 
Old 09-29-2012, 07:58 PM   #2
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Usually you get that message when your video driver does not deliver proper 3D acceleration. Any card from the last 8 years (estimated) should be able to run Gnome Shell. Which video card do you have? If you don't know please post the output of
Code:
lspci
 
Old 09-29-2012, 11:56 PM   #3
rmknox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Usually you get that message when your video driver does not deliver proper 3D acceleration. Any card from the last 8 years (estimated) should be able to run Gnome Shell. Which video card do you have? If you don't know please post the output of
Code:
lspci
here it is - any wisdom you can share would be appreciated
Quote:
[knox@knox ~]$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82865G/PE/P DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Interface (rev 02)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82865G/PE/P PCI to AGP Controller (rev 02)
00:06.0 System peripheral: Intel Corporation 82865G/PE/P Processor to I/O Memory Interface (rev 02)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 02)
00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 02)
00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 02)
00:1d.3 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Controller #4 (rev 02)
00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 02)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev c2)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 02)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) IDE Controller (rev 02)
00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801EB (ICH5) SATA Controller (rev 02)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) SMBus Controller (rev 02)
00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 02)
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage XL (rev 27)
02:05.0 Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI
02:06.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8169 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10)
 
Old 09-30-2012, 12:21 AM   #4
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OK, the ATI Rage XL in your system is in fact a shrunken version of the Rage Pro, which was released in 1997, IIRC. Since you also should have the onboard Intel i865G (according to your chipset) I would recommend to remove the video-card and to try it with the onboard video card.
When I see the age of your system and the components on your mainboard I assume that you also don't have a fast CPU and large amounts of RAM I would recommend to try it with a more lightweight desktop environment, like XFCE, MATE or LXDE instead of Gnome Shell (default on Fedora).
 
Old 09-30-2012, 10:26 AM   #5
rmknox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
OK, the ATI Rage XL in your system is in fact a shrunken version of the Rage Pro, which was released in 1997, IIRC. Since you also should have the onboard Intel i865G (according to your chipset) I would recommend to remove the video-card and to try it with the onboard video card.
When I see the age of your system and the components on your mainboard I assume that you also don't have a fast CPU and large amounts of RAM I would recommend to try it with a more lightweight desktop environment, like XFCE, MATE or LXDE instead of Gnome Shell (default on Fedora).
Hi TobiSGD

It sounds like you understand this subject - thanks for helping me
1) I read the motherboard spec - I have the 865PE which does not have the video, video being on the 865G.
2) My system is not off the shelf - but an accumulation with various parts updated at various times. My cpu is a Pentium 4 3.06 gHz with 1 GB memory. Considering that I started on the anfsq7 in the 50's - stepping up to the pdp8 - etc - this seems like a hotrod to me.
3) Can you suggest a minimal video card that might meet the f16 spec? I don't want a power hog since they generate heat, waste power, and wear out power supplies - and I don't do anything that needs graphics. I'm just a bit curious to see what I'm missing. Maybe I should just buy something and try it on my backup disk to see what it is all about - that way my normal disk is untouched?
4) I would be happy as heck to try a lightweight desktop but am concerned that I may mess up the fedora environment. Am I safe in having both? Maybe I should make an additional backup and then try to install one on it? Any suggestions? I have lots of stuff on this fedora system that I want and need.

Appreciate your wisdom
 
Old 09-30-2012, 10:55 AM   #6
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Keep in mind that you need an AGP video-card, the modern PCIe cards won't fit into your system. All cards AGP nowadays are considered to be lagacy and only get driver support with legacy drivers from the manufacturer. You also can use the open source drivers. If you want to use open source drivers I would recommend to go for a cheap ATI/AMD Radeon card, like the HD4350, if you want to go with the proprietary drivers I would recommend to go for Nvidia (legacy support is in general better with Nvidia), for example a cheap Geforce 6200.
Both cards will be more than sufficient to run modern desktops.

Regarding seeing your system as hotrod, how would you call modern systems then? For example, my main system has a six-core CPU and 16GB RAM, which is in the upper middle-class pretty much standard.
 
Old 09-30-2012, 11:14 AM   #7
rmknox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Keep in mind that you need an AGP video-card, the modern PCIe cards won't fit into your system. All cards AGP nowadays are considered to be lagacy and only get driver support with legacy drivers from the manufacturer. You also can use the open source drivers. If you want to use open source drivers I would recommend to go for a cheap ATI/AMD Radeon card, like the HD4350, if you want to go with the proprietary drivers I would recommend to go for Nvidia (legacy support is in general better with Nvidia), for example a cheap Geforce 6200.
Both cards will be more than sufficient to run modern desktops.

Regarding seeing your system as hotrod, how would you call modern systems then? For example, my main system has a six-core CPU and 16GB RAM, which is in the upper middle-class pretty much standard.
Let me spend some time digesting your suggestions.

As regards your system - it seems like a race car compared with my bike - but all I want to do is go to the park down the street. And my 10 speed bike is so much more useful than my roller skates.

Just out of curiosity - what do you do with all that computing power - design atom bombs?

A Univac in every garage!
 
Old 09-30-2012, 01:09 PM   #8
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I use it to run several virtual machines at the same time, compiling software completely in RAM, converting videos and of course I am a gamer.
 
Old 09-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I use it to run several virtual machines at the same time, compiling software completely in RAM, converting videos and of course I am a gamer.
Sounds like you enjoy life - Cheers - Dick
I'm of to do my homework on the cards you suggested
 
Old 09-30-2012, 03:03 PM   #10
John VV
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just to add a few thoughts

on an OLD machine i would run CentOS6.3 or ScientificLinux6.3 ( and maybe the even OLDER 5.8 )

i have a box form 2000 / 2001 that has a Nvidia gforce2 card

the card is SO old that xorg no longer even supports it
-- the opensource nouveau driver dose ---
so the very last fedora version i was able to run on it was 10

RHEL has a very long life so using Cent or SL on old hardware will keep it running for a bit of time

As far as i know the ATI based Rage card is also not supported in current Xorg
so fedora will not work well ( but i am NOT and expert on ati cards )

and if you can pick up one of the last nvidia AGP cards
( all / most of them are now LEGACY ) gforce4 or the old gf 5 FX that one "says it is still supported ????
might not be with xorg

an old nvidia card should go for about $25 to $50 ( might be free in a used bin )
 
Old 09-30-2012, 05:40 PM   #11
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John and Tobi

I realized that I have a newer machine that my wife uses to look at Craig's list - my son used to use it to play games - so I swapped drives

This hardware has a pcie video card - but I am not hep enuf to know whether it is doing its thing

when I run lspci I get
Quote:
00:00.0 Host bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Host Bridge (rev a2)
00:00.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a2)
00:01.0 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.3 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.5 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.6 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:02.0 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:03.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 LPC Bridge (rev a2)
00:03.1 SMBus: nVidia Corporation MCP73 SMBus (rev a1)
00:03.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Memory Controller (rev a1)
00:03.3 Co-processor: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Co-processor (rev a2)
00:03.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Memory Controller (rev a1)
00:04.0 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100/nForce 630i USB (rev a1)
00:04.1 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation MCP73 [nForce 630i] USB 2.0 Controller (EHCI) (rev a1)
00:08.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation MCP73 IDE (rev a1)
00:09.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP73 High Definition Audio (rev a1)
00:0a.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0b.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0c.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0d.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0e.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation MCP73 IDE (rev a2)
00:0f.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Ethernet (rev a2)
00:10.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C73 [GeForce 7100 / nForce 630i] (rev a2)
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G96 [GeForce 9400 GT] (rev a1)
when i run glxinfo | grep -i render it sez
Quote:
knox@knox ~]$ glxinfo | grep -i render
direct rendering: Yes
OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on NV96
GL_NV_conditional_render, GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility,
[knox@knox ~]$
my question - do i now have what i am supposed to have for f16 or perhaps do ineed to get some nVidia driver?

the computer is
Memory: 939.9 MiB
Processor 0: Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E4500 @2.20GHz
Processor 1: Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E4500 @2.20GHz

and I'm on a MSI P6NGM motherboard

[/quote]

It is so great to be able to ask experts!
 
Old 09-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #12
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You have a Geforce 9400GT in that newer machine. This card is perfectly fine to run Fedora 16. regarding the drivers, the free nouveau driver that is currently in use on the machine lacks proper power management, video acceleration and is not really performant. Unless you have political reasons to not use proprietary software I would recommend to install the Nvidia driver.
 
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:13 PM   #13
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and fallow the fedora nvidia guide

the older page
"F16,F15 & F14 Nvidia driver guides"
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=204752


this is the fedora 17 ( current version of fedora)
"F17 Nvidia guide "
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=280750


i recommend using the fedora provided kmod-nvidia rpm
 
Old 09-30-2012, 08:38 PM   #14
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Hi Guys -

I took the fedora-kmod option and I'm now up on the new driver
when I run lspci I get
Quote:
[knox@knox ~]$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Host Bridge (rev a2)
00:00.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a2)
00:01.0 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.3 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.5 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:01.6 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:02.0 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce 630i memory controller (rev a1)
00:03.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 LPC Bridge (rev a2)
00:03.1 SMBus: nVidia Corporation MCP73 SMBus (rev a1)
00:03.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Memory Controller (rev a1)
00:03.3 Co-processor: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Co-processor (rev a2)
00:03.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Memory Controller (rev a1)
00:04.0 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100/nForce 630i USB (rev a1)
00:04.1 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation MCP73 [nForce 630i] USB 2.0 Controller (EHCI) (rev a1)
00:08.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation MCP73 IDE (rev a1)
00:09.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP73 High Definition Audio (rev a1)
00:0a.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0b.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0c.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0d.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP73 PCI Express bridge (rev a1)
00:0e.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation MCP73 IDE (rev a2)
00:0f.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation MCP73 Ethernet (rev a2)
00:10.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C73 [GeForce 7100 / nForce 630i] (rev a2)
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G96 [GeForce 9400 GT] (rev a1)
[knox@knox ~]$
and when i run glxinfo | grep -i render it sez
Quote:
[knox@knox ~]$ glxinfo | grep -i render
direct rendering: Yes
OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 9400 GT/PCIe/SSE2
GL_NV_conditional_render, GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color, GL_NV_copy_image,
GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object2, GL_NV_path_rendering,
GL_NVX_conditional_render, GL_NVX_gpu_memory_info,
GL_OES_depth_texture, GL_OES_element_index_uint, GL_OES_fbo_render_mipmap,
[knox@knox ~]$
I note that this sees the 9400gt
at this point do i have what i want to have?

I realize there is an issue of diplomacy since I could not follow both sets of instructions.

So at this point should I have the full gnome 3 experience?

Again - thanks guys
 
Old 09-30-2012, 08:47 PM   #15
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Doesn't seem to look different.

Does seem to be faster - particularly in Thunderbird when I select multiple lines. That operation was SS LL OO WW (only in Thunderbird) before and now its normal.

Can you suggest an operation that would show off the benefit of this improvement?
 
  


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