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rmknox 10-01-2012 09:11 PM

Exposing my ignorance
 
There are some very knowledgeable guys here - and there are serious gaps in my understanding

If you feel kind enough - can you set me straight. Here is what I think I've deduced.

1) LINUX IS
any op sys distribution that has as its kernel a piece of software called linux distributed by "linux heaven" somewhere - which software is created and license open source by "linux heaven" who I suppose hold rights to the name Linux, and who issues updates with release numbers?? linux heaven being somehow closely connected with the Linus who wrote the first linux 20 years ago.

2) A DISTRO IS
a collection of software containing a linux kernel with various accessory software which is compatible with that kernel and whose members are compatible one with the other

3) FEDORA IS
a beta testing system for a commercial product aimed at high end users with super up to date computers and eager for the latest and greatest features??

4) A DESKTOP IS
an implementation of X windows which is compatible with other programs in the distro and includes application programs that are compatible with it and with one another??

5) The desktop comes into play if you boot into level 5??

6) If you boot to level 3 the desktop is not involved??

7) If you init from 5 to 3 are you (1) in an emulation of the command line situation - or are you (2) in fact on a fork that does not involve the desktop?

8) Am I anywhere close?

Thanks

Dick

TobiSGD 10-01-2012 09:44 PM

1) Linux is in fact nothing more than the kernel, developed by people all over the world. Linus Torvalds is still the head of development and has the last word what gets integrated into the kernel and what not. Often Linux is also used in short for distribution. When you say "I use Linux" you mean in fact "I use a GNU/Linux distribution".

2) A Linux distro (short for distribution) is an assembly of software based on a Linux kernel. Of course that software is compatible to the kernel and to itself, otherwise that wouldn't make much sense.

3) Fedora is the development version for Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which has stability and long time support as primary goals. It is not intended to run on the latest and greatest, it is intended to run in corporate environments where the software should not change to not endanger the workflow.

4) X11 is the underlying graphics system that offers basic graphic functions. A desktop environment sits on top of X11, manages windows and input (key-presses and mouse-clicks) and offers tools that are needed for everyday use. In contrary to the desktop environment you can also use a window manager which manages the windows and input, but does not deliver tools.

5) On which runlevel the desktop is started depends on the distribution. red Hat based systems usually use runlevel 5, Slackware based systems runlevel 4 and Debian based systems runlevel 2. In some recent distributions the concept of runlevels is deprecated, namely those distributions that use systemd as init-system. Those distributions use targets instead.

6) Also depends on the distro, true for Red Hat and Slackware systems, not true for Debian systems.

7) Neither of the two. If you change (on a Red Hat system) from runlevel 5 to runlevel 3 the graphical system will be shutdown and only the command-line system (which is always available) is running.

8) Yes, a basic understanding is there.

rmknox 10-01-2012 10:01 PM

Tobi

Thanks much

I came closer than I thought I would

And again thanks for your help in the nvidia project

I should have guessed the run level thing

Dick

And now I see Fedora more accurately - I'm downloading a product that is close to the point where it will go into commercial operation smoothly - comforting.

TobiSGD 10-02-2012 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmknox (Post 4794518)
And now I see Fedora more accurately - I'm downloading a product that is close to the point where it will go into commercial operation smoothly - comforting.

That is not quite true. In opposition to RHEL Fedora is a bleeding edge distribution used as testbed for new technologies. It is known to have sometimes bugs and break sometimes. If you want to use Fedora you should be able to troubleshoot the system. I would consider it more as an alpha version. For example, RHEL 6 is based on Fedora 12, but was released in November 2010. At this point Fedora was at version 14 already.

rmknox 10-02-2012 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiSGD (Post 4794800)
That is not quite true. In opposition to RHEL Fedora is a bleeding edge distribution used as testbed for new technologies. It is known to have sometimes bugs and break sometimes. If you want to use Fedora you should be able to troubleshoot the system. I would consider it more as an alpha version. For example, RHEL 6 is based on Fedora 12, but was released in November 2010. At this point Fedora was at version 14 already.

Tobi: OK - got it! Now it makes perfect sense. Thanks so much - Dick

rmknox 10-02-2012 10:02 AM

New question

When I upgrade I backup my disk and run preupgrade. On my DSL it takes over 24 hours to go thru the full cycle. I do so because I don't want to start from scratch and reinstall a lot of software I originally installed based on a web page named "The Perfect Desktop - Fedora 14 ..." plus other stuff.

I am aware that there is a process of moving to the next version where I could get a cd or dvd and do something from there. I have not pursued that path since I have been of the impression that to do so involves a new installation and then reinstalling all those applications.

Since I have been wrong on other things - may I'm wrong here? Maybe I can do an upgrade keeping the installed stuff - but from a cd or dvd? Is that an option? How do you recommend doing an upgrade?

TobiSGD 10-02-2012 10:27 AM

I am not a Fedora user, so I can't comment on their upgrade path. I personally dislike distributions that force me to upgrade every 13 months.

terry-duell 10-02-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmknox (Post 4794994)
Since I have been wrong on other things - may I'm wrong here? Maybe I can do an upgrade keeping the installed stuff - but from a cd or dvd? Is that an option? How do you recommend doing an upgrade?

I have been a long time Fedora user, and the short interval between upgrades has been a bit of a pain. I used 'preupgrade' a few times and although it was generally successful, the times it wasn't was enough to cause me to look at another approach.
I now use two discs, and do a clean install of the new system to the disc which is isn't my current/old system. I always use a separate /home partition, and copy my old /home across to the new /home.
I then use the advice at <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Installation_Guide/> to get all the info on packages installed on my old system (see section 9.10.2), and apply it to my new system (see section 18.2).
If anything goes wrong with the new system install I can simply fall back to booting from the old disc. After a couple of weeks I disconnect the old disc, which is brought back into play at the next release.
It might sound a bit daunting and a lot of work, particularly if you are a new user, but it does work pretty well.
I do this because I use quite a few packages/libraries etc that aren't in the standard release. If my system was much closer to the standard release I think I would simply do a clean install and manually add the few extra packages I needed. Either way the use of the two discs ensures that I don't lose anything.

Cheers,
Terry

rmknox 10-03-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry-duell (Post 4795494)
I have been a long time Fedora user, and the short interval between upgrades has been a bit of a pain. I used 'preupgrade' a few times and although it was generally successful, the times it wasn't was enough to cause me to look at another approach.
I now use two discs, and do a clean install of the new system to the disc which is isn't my current/old system. I always use a separate /home partition, and copy my old /home across to the new /home.
I then use the advice at <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Installation_Guide/> to get all the info on packages installed on my old system (see section 9.10.2), and apply it to my new system (see section 18.2).
If anything goes wrong with the new system install I can simply fall back to booting from the old disc. After a couple of weeks I disconnect the old disc, which is brought back into play at the next release.
It might sound a bit daunting and a lot of work, particularly if you are a new user, but it does work pretty well.
I do this because I use quite a few packages/libraries etc that aren't in the standard release. If my system was much closer to the standard release I think I would simply do a clean install and manually add the few extra packages I needed. Either way the use of the two discs ensures that I don't lose anything.

Cheers,
Terry

Hi Terry
Thanks for the pointers - I was not aware of that part of the documentation
Regards
Dick


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