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Akhran 08-27-2005 08:16 AM

What's the difference between debian and other debian-based distro like knoppix?
 
1) Are their hardware detection capability and driver support the same?

2) Are other debian-based distro just a re-packaging of software?

Thanks !

aysiu 08-27-2005 09:09 AM

Re: What's the difference between debian and other debian-based distro like knoppix?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Akhran
1) Are their hardware detection capability and driver support the same?

2) Are other debian-based distro just a re-packaging of software?

Thanks !

I don't know all the technical details, because I'm a newbie myself and also not a programmer, but, as far as I can tell, the difference has to do with:

hardware detection
community support
default applications
installation process

A couple of examples:

Knoppix has excellent hardware detection.
Mepis comes with a ton of apps; Ubuntu comes with only a few apps.
Mepis has a graphical installer; Ubuntu and Debian have text-based installers.
Ubuntu uses its own repositories. Mepis and Xandros can use Debian repositories reliably.
Linspire can't use apt-get or dpkg reliably--it has its own packaging system.
Most Debian-based distros come with a default KDE desktop. Ubuntu comes with a default Gnome desktop.

So, in the end... there's not that much of a difference, but there's enough to matter to some people.

Akhran 08-27-2005 09:47 AM

Re: Re: What's the difference between debian and other debian-based distro like knopp
 
Thanks for sharing :)

Does better hardware detection capability comes with newer kernel (Knoppix has newer kernel than Sarge), or is the hardware detection capability handled by a module? If better hardware detection is made possible with the installation of a package, would it be possible to install that package with the original debian distribution?

ie. What are the factors/components/modules that affect the different hardware detection capability among the different debian-based distro?

Thanks !


Quote:

Originally posted by aysiu
I don't know all the technical details, because I'm a newbie myself and also not a programmer, but, as far as I can tell, the difference has to do with:

hardware detection
community support
default applications
installation process

A couple of examples:

Knoppix has excellent hardware detection.
Mepis comes with a ton of apps; Ubuntu comes with only a few apps.
Mepis has a graphical installer; Ubuntu and Debian have text-based installers.
Ubuntu uses its own repositories. Mepis and Xandros can use Debian repositories reliably.
Linspire can't use apt-get or dpkg reliably--it has its own packaging system.
Most Debian-based distros come with a default KDE desktop. Ubuntu comes with a default Gnome desktop.

So, in the end... there's not that much of a difference, but there's enough to matter to some people.


aysiu 08-27-2005 09:53 AM

Re: Re: Re: What's the difference between debian and other debian-based distro like k
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Akhran
Thanks for sharing :)

Does better hardware detection capability comes with newer kernel (Knoppix has newer kernel than Sarge), or is the hardware detection capability handled by a module? If better hardware detection is made possible with the installation of a package, would it be possible to install that package with the original debian distribution?

ie. What are the factors/components/modules that affect the different hardware detection capability among the different debian-based distro?

Thanks !

That I don't know. Someone else want to answer that question?

reddazz 08-27-2005 02:16 PM

The hardware detection is not just as a result of a new kernel, but hardware detection tools built by the various distro maintainers.

mark_alfred 08-27-2005 03:01 PM

Quote:

Mepis has a graphical installer; Ubuntu and Debian have text-based installers.
Actually, both Ubuntu and Debian come with Synaptic, which is a graphical installer. The initial install with Debian Sarge is also a graphical installer.

samael26 08-27-2005 03:44 PM

Hum, I am not quite sure you are right here. Debian Sarge comes with a text-based installer, as has
been said.
Synaptic installs packages but does not install the distro itself.

aysiu 08-27-2005 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark_alfred
Actually, both Ubuntu and Debian come with Synaptic, which is a graphical installer. The initial install with Debian Sarge is also a graphical installer.
When I installed Debian Sarge, it had a text-based installer, but I installed it when it first came out. Has it changed since?

And, yes, I was talking about the installation of the distro itself, not of packages using Synaptic Package Manager.

samael26 08-27-2005 04:44 PM

No, it hasn't. There are more helpful 'tips' and some more configuration options, such as configuring a proxy, but that's all. It is quite easy to use, IMO.

makuyl 08-27-2005 04:56 PM

AFAICT knoppix uses these for hardware detection:
ii hwsetup 1.0-14 Automatic hardware setup using the kudzu library
ii kudzu-knoppix 1.1.3-3 The Red Hat Linux hardware probing tool.
ii kudzu-knoppix-dev 1.1.3-3 Hardware detecting library
ii kudzu-knoppix-vesa 1.1.3-3 Hardware detecting library

Having a text-based installer is not IMO worse than having a gui-installer. Debians installer does look sort of graphical anyway with ncurses. The only difference is that you don't use a mouse during the installer.

ironwalker 08-28-2005 03:22 PM

Another difference is knoppix is a mixed sourced system.Mepis is based on etch Kanotix is based on sid,Unbuntu bases there sources on there own system and unbuntu I believe has a different file structure although not far off.

As for hardware detection Kanotix uses kudzu Im not sure if the others do too.

towjamb 08-28-2005 06:07 PM

Re: What's the difference between debian and other debian-based distro like knoppix?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Akhran
1) Are their hardware detection capability and driver support the same?

2) Are other debian-based distro just a re-packaging of software?

Thanks !

1. Knoppix has a newer kernel and has been heavily patched to support laptops and such. And it uses kudzu for hardware detection, which appears to work well. It would seem to be a good choice for a desktop install, which it is indeed capable of.

However, with its mixed bag of software, I've tried it and found it difficult to maintain an updated Knoppix system. I believe it was built and meant to be a live CD. Feel free to try it out; there is an excellent forum for support.

2. Yes, other distros repackage and make custom binaries. Some will work with Debian repos, but there is no guarantee. The only reason I would ever consider a derivative is if I wished for bleeding edge or was a complete technoboob, which in the latter case I think I would consider simply buying a pre-installed system.

I mean, really ... why would one pay for a packaged product when you can buy a cheap install disk from LinuxCD? Give your $50 to Debian instead. If you still find Sarge difficult to install, try Debian Pure.

I not arguing that derivatives are bad but rather point out the benefits, to more uniformed readers, of running pure Debian. Once you have Debian installed once, that's it. You have a wealth of packages to choose from of high quality with infinite upgradeability. Debian will always exist because it is a community project and non-commercial, Can derivatives promise this? Perhaps it seems always a step behind more high profile distros, but stability has always been a Debian priority. (I can break a distro on my own, thank you.)

To cap my rant, I predict that two packaging models will emerge and dominate, especially amongst commercial ISVs: RPMs for Red Hat, and Debian debs. Every other distro will have to be compatible or risk being marginalized. So, I predict eventually every derivative will at least support binaries of the latest Debian stable release anyway.

My point? Learn Debian now. You won't be disappointed.


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