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-   -   Useless rant. For new users. (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/useless-rant-for-new-users-90097/)

robojerk 09-07-2003 04:05 AM

Useless rant. For new users.
 
I wonder, if you took all the time people have used writing how-to's, tips, forums, and chatting on IRC for installing GNU debian and added it up how long would that be? I'm not trying to smear the good name of Debian, but it's obvious that people are trying to get their feet wet and see this wonderful thing called Linux that they hear co-workers, friends, and read reviews about saying it's the future or something of computing. Now this may or may not be true, but these potential users are getting a sour taste in their mouths on the whole linux subject. I say that people should just point users to distros like XandrOS, Libranet.com or even LindowsOS (just make it so they're not in root). Yeah they'll have to pay money, but atleast they won't spend days, weeks, or even months toying with X config files, reformatting, or even or using a seperate computer trying to figure out why their network card doesn't work. Yeah some of those people might have similiar problems but atleast instead of having no X server AND no network, they'll have one or the other and but more configured than doing it ALL by themsleves. This rant may be useless but just think about the opening sentance, The answer would be a WHOLE LOT. I do believe that all 3 alternative distros donate some sort of funds to the Debian project, if not then I'm just misinformed.:newbie:

crashmeister 09-07-2003 05:24 AM

Thats because most of those people have a problem perceiving the reality as-is.They all know more or less what they are doing and just figure: 'Hey whats the big deal?' I got the same problem with Linux but can relate better to people new to it (me thinks) since I feel like I got just thrown ito a shark tank without a magic map out when I boot into M$.

padlamoij 09-07-2003 11:29 AM

Or you could just buy windows.

crashmeister 09-07-2003 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by padlamoij
Or you could just buy windows.
See - thats what I was talking about.

buttersoft 09-07-2003 01:47 PM

Forget windows. If you want Debian to work. Get a Knoppix 3.1 or 3.2 disk, don't even bother to do an hard disk install, run Linux from the CD and in 3.2 you can run from the CD and set up a /Home on the hard-disk. Child's play. Productive system. No windows.

shermang 09-07-2003 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttersoft
Forget windows. If you want Debian to work. Get a Knoppix 3.1 or 3.2 disk, don't even bother to do an hard disk install, run Linux from the CD and in 3.2 you can run from the CD and set up a /Home on the hard-disk. Child's play. Productive system. No windows.
That's a terribly way to introduce linux. Running Knoppix from the CD, although completely brainless it might make the more ignorant think linux is slow because their experience with knoppix was a bit slow.
A good intro to linux is to just install Knoppix onto your harddrive, it'll give you good speed, a system already setup for you, and if you don't like it just get rid of the partition, oh and it's debian(friendly enough that it's usable while still not being fake like Lindows ect...). I never understood the reasoning behind how it's safer and better to use an OS that's entirely in memory and not just install it for the full feel, managing/deleting/creating partitions is very easy and anyone fiddling with linux should know enough about computers to at least be comfortable with that.

robojerk 09-07-2003 11:14 PM

knoppix
 
I read that alot of people using morphix have USB mouse problems. I haven't fully tried knoppix though. When I did try it I had upgraded my video card to a geforce fx 5200, no distribution supports this card as of yet.:(

buttersoft 09-08-2003 12:21 AM

I don't agree. For a complete newbie to Linux Knoppix ran from the CD, is a great idea to get the feel of Linux, when one is comfortable with it, and that does not take long, then you can start to get adventurous and install to hard disk,

2damncommon 09-08-2003 12:28 AM

robojerk, the truth is that if everyone had to install Windows themselves after they bought their PCs, they would be unhappy with that too.
Don't believe me? Check any Windows forum or group for people having problems with install, upgrades and the folks that "just don't like the new version".
What you are talking about is a software deal, not a distro or OS deal.
IMO

BlckJck 09-08-2003 01:49 AM

Quote:

That's a terribly way to introduce linux. Running Knoppix from the CD, although completely brainless it might make the more ignorant think linux is slow because their experience with knoppix was a bit slow.
I agree in the fact that it is not the fastest way to run Linux, but it has been the best way for me to show people or let them try it themselves. I can't think of a better way to demonstrate something then letting someone run a full operating system that doesn't touch there hard drive or change there system at all.

Trying to run Windoze from a "live" CD is a joke, and installing windows can be just as much a pain. If it doesn't auto detect, you still have to get the drivers. And what about the "Unknown" devices. The only thing, IMO, that Windoze does have going for it is it's mainstream acceptance, which has prompted hardware and software venders to write specificaly for it. There are alot more jumping on the Linux bandwagon.

Just thing of the age difference. How lond had M$ taken to get Windoze to install nice? How much overhead in both running memory and HDD space does just the newest operating system take? 2 GIG or something close, and thats without alot of software. Knoppix, for example, autodetects, allows HDD install, and has way more then just the "base" software. I think its 2 GIG installed, and thats with tons of software.

buttersoft 09-08-2003 05:09 AM

quote:

I agree in the fact that it is not the fastest way to run Linux, but it has been the best way for me to show people or let them try it themselves. I can't think of a better way to demonstrate something then letting someone run a full operating system that doesn't touch there hard drive or change there system at all.

Exactly. It is the safest way to demonstrate without screwing up whatever exists on the hard-disk. It is also an excellent recovery cd. Soon it will be a DVD!

It is also the way that I introduced myself to Linux for the simple reason that it recognised virtually everything on both my systems.

eltongeoff 09-08-2003 09:25 AM

yo robojerk. uve got the wrong attidtude. i don't want it to b easy, it's no fun if it's easy. ur asking for windows with a linux title so u can show all your friends. i dunno..... i find it fun, and when i finally do get something up, like X, or for mplayer to finally play fullscreen, or firebird to play quicktime and avis within the browser, or my ethernet to finally pick up an ip on its own using dhcp, or finally compile my kernel correctly just in time to go and compile the newest one...... it's a good feeling. realize this is not windows and prolly the majority of use don't want it to b. it takes time and patience.

crashmeister 09-08-2003 09:45 AM

Re: knoppix
 
Quote:

Originally posted by robojerk
I read that alot of people using morphix have USB mouse problems. I haven't fully tried knoppix though. When I did try it I had upgraded my video card to a geforce fx 5200, no distribution supports this card as of yet.:(
Ha! - gentoo works out-of-the-box with it:D

buttersoft 09-08-2003 10:11 AM

robojerk

what an excellent name

johnMG 09-08-2003 12:36 PM

robojerk,

GNU/Linux's ease-of-use has been slowly getting better as the years have gone by. I've only been using it for a couple of years, but I think I can discern that pattern.

Look at how much nicer ncftp is than ftp.

exuberant-ctags is nicer than the original ctags.

With Debian, look how much better life is with dpkg-reconfigure.

You just notice the troublesome aspects of GNU/Linux more lately because its popularity is reaching the point where lots of non-experts are getting involved.

Personally, I think one of the last frontiers is good (that is: consise, complete, and correct) documentation. For example, when boot-floppies (or is that base-config?) asks you if you're using an LCD display or not, it should tell you why it's asking and what it will do according to your answer. :)

Another example (off the top of my head, since I dealt with it recently) is pbbuttonsd. The fellow went though all the trouble (lots of work) to create it for the community, yet /etc/pbbuttonsd.conf has *very* few explanatory comments in it. This general pattern seems to be rampant in free software.


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