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Old 04-30-2013, 04:12 AM   #16
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
As contradictory it sounds, for me Testing often gives more problems than Sid. In Sid bugs are solved faster and you don't have to wait until fixes propagate down to Testing. It doesn't always help to read the apt messages. When facing an installation problem it is nice not to break unexpectedly, but it is awkward when some conflict or bug stops you from installing that package or upgrade you just need.

jlinkels
This is my experience also.
I tended to find packages simply missing from Testing which were in Stable and Sid. This wasn't always a problem when it was things like Gwibber (hypothetical example -- I'm not sure it was this exact application) but more annoying when it was WINE related or similar.
I've been caught out by not reading what's being removed so many times now that hopefully I've got the message to not press 'y' until I have read everything.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 04:38 AM   #17
jdkaye
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I don't think there's any definitive answer to this issue. All you can do is try something and see if it suits you. I began my Debian life with a Stable Potato and found that too conservative for my taste as I am not running a server for 500 clients. I then moved to Testing and I liked it and have stayed with it ever since. I use apt-pinning for some packages from Unstable (esp. multimedia packages) and I also use a kernel (liquorix) from Unstable. I have no use for Wine. I've used this set up for years with very few problems. I think YMMV is the operative phrase in this context.
Ciao,
jdk
 
Old 04-30-2013, 04:53 AM   #18
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YMMV is certainly true, however, reading pages such as this:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/de...oosing.en.html
The consensus does seem to be that whilst Sid may "break" more often the problems are sorted a lot quicker whereas Unstable can go a long time without a fix.
I took the view that if I'm going to have to be careful what I update and be prepared to apt-pin or whatever that I might as well get the newest packages in return.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 05:54 AM   #19
descendant_command
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Isn't the new Testing a copy of Sid at the moment Wheezy moves out of Testing?
Nope.
The new testing (Jessie) will be a copy of Wheezy at the moment it moves to stable.
Packages will then start migrating to Jessie from Sid as and when they meet the criteria to be included in testing.
This will initially be a lot, and very quickly, but there are still a lot of packages in sid that can not go into testing for various reasons (there is a list of qualifications somewhere on debian.org).
 
Old 04-30-2013, 06:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDY1
wheezy has almost always been stable for me
The same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273
The consensus does seem to be that whilst Sid may "break" more often the problems are sorted a lot quicker whereas Unstable can go a long time without a fix.
I think you mean testing goes long without a fix. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels
It doesn't always help to read the apt messages.
While packages go missing, apt won't simply remove them - that takes user intervention. While stated above that reading will not solve any problems that arise from testing's breakage, it will help avoid removing necessary/wanted packages. Unfortunately it means you're stuck with older software, so be it, better than a potentially broken system.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 06:09 AM   #21
goumba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by descendant_command View Post
but there are still a lot of packages in sid that can not go into testing for various reasons (there is a list of qualifications somewhere on debian.org).
For those who don't want to search: http://www.debian.org/devel/testing
 
Old 04-30-2013, 06:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goumba View Post
I think you mean testing goes long without a fix. ;-)
I do, indeed, teach me to post without proof reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goumba View Post
While packages go missing, apt won't simply remove them - that takes user intervention. While stated above that reading will not solve any problems that arise from testing's breakage, it will help avoid removing necessary/wanted packages.
This is true, but there is no way of knowing that the new version of libwibble you just installed will mean that the application you want to install tomorrow won't install.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 12:29 AM   #23
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Quote:
While packages go missing, apt won't simply remove them - that takes user intervention. While stated above that reading will not solve any problems that arise from testing's breakage, it will help avoid removing necessary/wanted packages.
I have so much faith in testing that I go ahead & allow for removal of packages basically no "safe upgrades" here.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 04:55 AM   #24
jdkaye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDY1 View Post
I have so much faith in testing that I go ahead & allow for removal of packages basically no "safe upgrades" here.
Basically I agree with you but using safe-upgrade (which I do) does occasionally involve the removal of packages for example linux-headers.
jdk
 
Old 05-01-2013, 10:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkaye View Post
Basically I agree with you but using safe-upgrade (which I do) does occasionally involve the removal of packages for example linux-headers.
jdk
I myself don't have a production sever plus I have another drive with wheezy on it which won't get upgraded right away so it's just a matter of copying a few missing documents over to it & cloing it to the drive so no worries here.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 04:24 PM   #26
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My upgrade from Squeeze to Wheezy, while rather nerve racking because it was so large, was totally painless.

There are a number of users that will not be effected by the Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 change at all. I, for instance, run Xfce and many run KDE or Lxde. Several also run other fine DEs such as one of the many WhateverBox DEs (OB is my favorite of them).

Gnome 3 will, I am sure, improve over time When they realize that the people that use actual keyboards have not all disappeared. With the right extensions installed Gnome Shell is quite usable as it is anyway. I wouldn't as a daily thing but have tried it and it works.

Am pretty sure the upgrade from Xfce 4.8 to Xfce 4.10 will be pretty painless. The tabbed browsing in Thunar is great. Been using that for sometime.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 04:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widget View Post
Am pretty sure the upgrade from Xfce 4.8 to Xfce 4.10 will be pretty painless. The tabbed browsing in Thunar is great. Been using that for sometime.
I'm wondering when 4.10 will make its way to Sid now...
 
Old 05-01-2013, 06:07 PM   #28
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Assuming that you know that 4.10 is in experimental - it will move into unstable when it's ready, but obviously after freeze ends.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 09:22 PM   #29
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The xfce 4.10 problem is that some packages in experimental are not yet compiled with the new lib versions (the panel lib and garcon if i remember correctly are not compatible with the 4.8 api) introduced in it.

You have to compile the panel plugins, orage and maybe some more yourself. I did that and have absolutely no problems with 4.10.

Also, thunar 1.6 is very much improved compared to 1.2, with tabbed support, now sees all attached devices/network mounts + it can do network bookmarking very easily. Pretty much everything that was missing feature wise is in there now.
 
Old 05-02-2013, 01:22 AM   #30
jdkaye
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The Day Approaches!

As of 6:00 UTC this morning there were 6 bugs remaining to be squashed. Jessie is almost in sight.
jdk
 
  


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