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thriftee 01-30-2009 10:06 PM

NOOB INFO: ia64 versions are *NOT* for Intel Core 2 Duo or Quad 64 bit processors
 
In debian if you have a newer Intel 64 bit processor you want to use the amd64 versions of programs, or at least take the time to make sure which version will run on your machine before downloading and checksumming, and burning, and checksumming and trying to boot it, trying the net install, the dvd and the cd, only to find they were for the wrong Intel 64 bit processor.

http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst.en-us.html
http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/
http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/

If you dig enough you will find this (not in the ia64 manual, either), but maybe, just maybe you will find this post via google before you've spent a day or two and a pile of "coasters" trying. I found on their ia64 mailing list archive that the people there said that 40% of the messages were from people with the newer Intel 64 bit processors that were trying to use the ia64 version by mistake, admittedly like myself. I got from the conversation that they weren't willing to change the names to avoid the confusion.

I guess people get attached to the names, but it would have been "nice" if they could have just put a little note to clarify it prominent on the page where you would make the decision which version to download or buy, for example like ubuntu did, or maybe name the amd64 version x86_64 next round, like sabayon did, to prevent confusion in the first place, since the vast majority of computers being built or sold these days are the newer Intel and AMD 64 bit processors.

What bothered me was that except for those who came and asked the questions, it seemed as though the most of the rest were oblivious to the concept that if that many people made the mistake and came and asked them, how many more made the mistake, couldn't get it to work after all that time, effort, coasters, and bandwidth, and gave up on debian as a result?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, here, just trying to leave a breadcrumb that some other noob might find so they don't need to make the same mistake as me.

paulsm4 01-30-2009 11:32 PM

Just to clarify, there are two different "flavors" of Intel/AMD 64-bit CPUs to be aware of:

Quote:

* Itanium: IA64:
This is typically the version you *don't* want
Quote:

* X86-64:
This was introduced by AMD (Athlon 64, Opteron, Semperon, etc), but is now fully supported by Intel (Celeron, Pentium 4, Xeon, Core 2, Core i7).
You can find more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

'Hope that helps .. PSM

AlucardZero 01-30-2009 11:44 PM

Confusingly, 64 bit (Celeron, Pentium 4, Xeon, Core 2, Core i7)s take the amd64 packages which is aka x86_64, x64.

salasi 01-31-2009 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thriftee (Post 3426900)
...this (not in the ia64 manual, either)...

I guess people get attached to the names, but it would have been "nice" if they could have just put a little note to clarify it...

Well, I guess you are right, but the developers will have had the opinion (incorrectly!) that anyone who han't been living under a rock for the last ten years will know this.

I suppose that is what happens when something starts moving outside its core audience of geeks and ino the wider community.

I'm sure the difference between the ia64 and the x86-64 are covered on the Intel site, but, if someone who doesn't know wants a 64 bit distribution, checking it out there isn't necessarily an obvious move.

thriftee 01-31-2009 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salasi (Post 3427141)
Well, I guess you are right, but the developers will have had the opinion (incorrectly!) that anyone who han't been living under a rock for the last ten years will know this.

I suppose that is what happens when something starts moving outside its core audience of geeks and ino the wider community.

I'm sure the difference between the ia64 and the x86-64 are covered on the Intel site, but, if someone who doesn't know wants a 64 bit distribution, checking it out there isn't necessarily an obvious move.

I don't know about you, but I don't seem to notice these things till I buy or build a new system that needs them, and once built/loaded I tend to run them till the wheels fall off, or leave them alone till my needs change. My last new machine prior to this was a Dual Pentium III machine I cobbled together out of server spare parts. Its now loaded with debian 40r6 and sabayon 4r1 as well as win/98 for game playing, and runs just fine even though its now going on 9 yrs old.

And sorry, but I read the specs on the Intel site. No normal person would figure it out from that.

You are correct IMO, that if things are written "for geeks", that normal folk will have a more difficult time getting thru an install. That was why I suggested adding a sentence to clarify it since at least 40% of the people downloading and installing the other version were obviously doing it by mistake. If you look at it that way, my goof was that I didn't know I wasn't at the proper level to be able to install it, either.

Waste not, want not.


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