New init system
 

Well, I didn't see this one coming.

http://www.joachim-breitner.de/heisse-news/news_27.xml

Google translate seems to do a pretty good job for those who don't read German.

Evo2.

... and still nothing official for Jessie.

Most agree that those old .rc scripts are simply outdated, stupid, chaotic and unmaintainable (sysv-init is dead).

Picking a new one (as default) is difficult for various reasons.
Whather they pick, it can't please everyone (resulting in articles as the above) ;)

Current options:
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/

Original bug:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708

A decision needs to be made, the sooner the better.

Is that your opinion? I'm interested to hear what exactly is wrong with SystemV. It works, and is rock solid. Why change something that works fine?

I'm really interested how it will work out.

Regardless the technical questions, Systemd is linux-only so they will have to come up with some sort of compatibility workarounds, Upstart requires you to sign the CLA to contribute upstream and i'm not sure how the Debian policy rules apply to this. OpenRC doesn't seem to be a serious advancement from sysVinit.
If Debian chooses Upstart it might be serious setback for systemd.

No.
It's from the majority (not everyone) of all DD/DM's and really about Debian and Debian only ...

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00651.html

Options:
*sysvinit (status quo)
*systemd
*upstart
*openrc (not available in sid - ITP: 684396)
*One system on Linux, something else on non-linux
*multiple: commit to supporting two or more specific initsystems, such that choosing a default is less important, and at least one of them is available to every arch

https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/

Traditional SysV is lacking features for some user-cases/environments in Debian (blocking release goals for Jessie).
Supporting them all the same would be a mess.
OpenRC isn't even available in Sid.

So ... it's mostly about "upstart vs systemd" (+ a solution for kFreeBSD an Hurd if possible).

Hi,

actually the article is about a completely new solution based around suspending to disk.

Evo2.

And I can understand why there has been push-back. I always thought Linux was about choice - I'll start what I want when I want.
Not accept an image pushed down my throat by the devs.

Hi,

What push-back are you referring to? I've not seen any discussion of this new idea for an init system. I'd really like to see some though: do you have any links?

Thanks,

Evo2.

I was extrapolating from the (translation of) the article

Hi,
Ok. I don't find that last paragraph to be particularly surprising, and I don't really think of it as push-back against this new idea in particular. From what I've seen the upstart backers and systemd backers have already made up their minds and are unlikely to be swayed easily.

Evo2.

This link was in the first post;
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/

Which actually sets out the proposed possibilities quite well and I found quite interesting.

It really is not about "starting things when you want" as init already starts thing automatically when you boot. Yes you can change the order if you want but I don't see anything stopping you from doing that with the top three choices.

Upstart I doubt will be used. It is not that great anyway and the copyright policy of Canonical is offensive to too many people.

Systemd is used quite well by some distros already. I know it works fine in Mageia 3.

The only real objection to changing is that it is change or so it seems to me. There is some sense to that argument but there was the same sense in arguing for sticking with many systems that have now disappeared from use.

The objection of the systemd devs to porting it to other kernels than the Linux kernel seems like the only logical objection but that could be handled by a fork or by their becoming a bit more flexible in their thinking.

Be interesting to see what Debian does do with this. I suspect more integration of systemd, for which there is considerable support already in Debian, as sticking with init for Jessie as with Wheezy. Then a shift to systemd for Debian 9.

I think that is just more in line with the traditional way of change in Debian.

Hi,

I don't see any mention of Vorlon's proposal on that page. It's just the same old sysvinit, upstart, systemd, et al stuff.

Evo2.

It's called "satire".

... Ian “Vorlon” Bart hat im Interview mit heisse news das Ergebnis ...

Ian > Ian Jackson
Vorlon > Steve Langasek
Bart(h)> Andreas Barth(?)

http://www.debian.org/intro/organization

Does it? (... and that's called "sarcasm")
Their's obviously some"irony" in this ;)

PS: It's still under discussion:
*http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708
*debian-ctte: http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/

While I honestly respect all ctte members as individuals, it's difficult to overlook how 1/3 are paid Canonical employees as well ...

HI,
Damn, I should have spotted that.

I guess one needs to remember that subtly is usually lost with machine translation.

Anyway, thanks, this explains a lot.

Cheers,

Evo2.