Hi all ya Debian folks. I put kernel 2.6.8-2-386 on my Debian 3.0r2 install. Synaptic showed there was a conflict with hotplug. When I tried to boot 2.6 I just had the monitor clicking on and off, like it couldn't start X. I've now finished many hours of dial-up upgrades and dist-upgrades to testing (sarge). This is on another install. I've installed kernel 2.6.8-2-386 again and tried to boot it. This time all I get is a text log-in prompt. I presume this is to do with hotplug being started at boot-up. The BIG ? is. If I disable hotplug to try the 2.6 kernel and it still won't boot. Am I going to have a problem booting with kernel 2.4.27-2-386 that uses hotplug, to get back into the system. Incidentally when I tried startx off the log-in prompt it didn't want to know. Believe me. The last thing I want is to shut myself out of the system by disabling hotplug, especially after mega-hours of updates/upgrades. I would not think this would be the case and that just stuff like, PCI,USB, etc wouldn't be loaded. All comments to a relative newbie, rude or otherwise, gratefully received. Nigel. aka farpoint.

Distro: Debian 3.0r2, with upgrades, dist-upgrades, then, security upgrades, then testing upgrades, then kernel 2.4.27-2-386 added, then testing dist-upgrades. These were the worst ones as they nuked KDE and replaced it with Gnome. Had to do more hours of dial-up DL's to replace KDE, which I really like and am more familiar with than Gnome.

Alsa: 1.08
Machine: i-Friend 1.3GHZ celeron, 1GB RAM, Various distros on various hardrives. Caddy.

Sounds like your problems all stem from the fact that you
haven't successfully installed/configured X.
I don't see how booting to console is related to hotplug.

I'd suggest you download (yes horrible word to read when on dialup )
and install xdebconfigurator.

Hi. I don't believe this is an X problem as it only happens when booting from the 2.6.8-2-386 kernel. Booting with 2.4bf2.4 or 2.4.27-2-386 (the one I installed with the Alsa modules) there are no problems at all. X starts,kdm, and KDE desktop are all fine. When I downloaded kernel 2.6.8-2-386 synaptics dependencies panel said that it conflicted with hotplug. Maybe the 2.6 kernel has got hardware detection built in and thats why the warning is there about a hotplug conflict. There obviously is some problem at boot up for it, as it will load as far as text mode interface but wont start the X server. Its like it tries to start X, can't, and reverts to a text interface. What i'm concerned about is. If I disable hotplug temporarily (which is used by the 2.4 kernels) so as to try the 2.6 one which is having the problem, and it still won't work, am I going to then have a problem booting up the 2.4 kernel with hotplug in its disabled state? How critical is hotplug with the 2,4 kernel to having a running operating system? As I said before I'd rather pass on the 2.6 kernel if the alternative is perhaps not being able to boot the 2.4 kernel with hotplug disabled, "you know" all the hours of dial-up upgrades. Thanks for any advice. Nigel. aka farpoint.


Just out of interest are you using a 2.6 kernel with 2.4 ones still installed on the machine?

Well I can assure you there isn't a problem running hotplug with 2.6,
err .. perhaps I should say that I don't have a problem

I strongly suggest you try to prove to yourself that your problems really are
hotplug related before your remove hotplug. Got any USB devices to test?

You don't have an nvidia card, with the nvidia drivers, do you?
You will certainly need to reinstall the driver if that's the case (and nvidia-glx).
(just use the nv driver for testing)

Perhaps less or tail of /var/log/XFree86.0.log might help you find out why the xserver isn't working.

You say there was a conflict with hotplug when you installed 2.6, but you don't mention
what that conflict was (I find it hard to believe that the conflict was with the kernel itself).

I would certainly suggest finding out what the xserver problem actually is, before
jumping to conclusions about hotplug being the cause of all your evils.

ps.
Yes I usually have a 2.4 kernel on any machine I install (superstition I guess),
mostly because I install using 2.4bf (cd5) and then dist-upgrade to unstable.
Older kernels are usually removed after 6-12 months (or when I run out of room on /boot).
I am currently running 2.6.11 (with hotplug) and a few older versions as backup.
Strangley enough, I only removed 2.4.18bf and 2.4.27 a couple of days ago.

Hi. The log has identified the problem. Can't find the mouse! The boot up details showed kdm started, but only a text log-in screen. So I ran the log using less. All seemd ok till it got to the mouse. Looked for configured mouse at /dev/psaux No Such Device. I don't know if this has relevance but the line said. xf860OpenSerial: Cannot open device /dev/psaux No such device. Does that sound like its looking for it on a serial port? Then it tried again for generic mouse. Same line again but pointing to /dev/input/mice No such device. Then finishes up (WW) No core pointer registered. Fatal server error: failed to initialize core devices.

The mouse I use is an A4 tech scrollball mouse. I've just rebooted with the 2.4.27 kernel to check the XFree86 log for the mouse. Early on in the log I get. Load Module: "mouse" . Then. Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/mouse_drv.o . And in the same place as the 2.6 kernel couldn't find the mouse. Instead of the line starting "xf8600OpenSerial" It says simply "Option "Protocol" "PS/2" and finds it at /dev/psaux, then goes on with the various options for it. Interestingly it then tries for a Generic mouse and this line does start with xf8600OpenSerial and it looks for it at /dev/input/mice , and cant find one there. Ending up,
(EE) Generic mouse: cannot open input device
(EE) Preinit failed for input device "Generic Mouse".
But goes ahead then adding the first "configured" mouse in XINPUT.
I'll add a bit more on another page. Nigel aka farpoint.

OK, so now we have a rough idea why hotplug has affected 2.6,
the mouse driver is not loading properly.
Have you got discover installed? (discover1)

Hi. No I havn't got discover on this instance of Debian. But. When I first installed it. On the modules options pages for INPUT Devices, keybddev and PS2 were checked, but there was another unchecked entry for mousedev, and I left that thinking that PS2 would pick up the mouse, which it did with 2.4bf and 2.4.27. I've now added that module in /etc/modules, rebooted with 2.6 and now it starts X,kdm, and opens the desktop, but with a frozen mouse pointer. I thought I'd screwed things up, but the mouse is ok in 2.4. Booted up 2.6 again and pointer is still frozen, logged out and back in to text mode and ran the XFree86 log. Now it shows the following in part.
Configurd Mouse: Protocol: "PS/2"
Option "Device" "/dev/psaux"
(then the options. Buttons,XAxisMapping etc.)
then.
Generic Mouse: Protocol: "ImPS/2"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
then button options etc.
then
XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Generic Mouse" (type: MOUSE)
XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Configured Mouse" (type: MOUSE)
Configured Mouse: ps2EnableDataReporting: succeeded
Generic Mouse: ps2EnableDataReporting: succeeded .
Looks like it's configured 2 instances of the mouse, perhaps causing a conflict resulting in the frozen pointer. Is it possible to disable it also searching for the generic mouse which I presume is why this problem is there. Nigel. aka farpoint.

Get rid of the Generic mouse section in your X config just leaving the configured and have you added this to your /etc/fstab.

Also make sure that the module psmouse IIRC is being loaded with the 2.6 kernel. If it does not work then can you post the /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file you are using. Oh and you may want to use ImPS/2 for Protocol in the configured mouse section.

Hi Stephen. I didn't just trash the generic mouse entry in /etc/X11/XF86config-4, but commented the lines. Whether that was why X couldn't find any screens and coudn't start I don't know, but led to a bit more practice with nano to remove the offending comments. Meanwhile back with kernel 2.6 booted up and the pointer stuck in the middle of the screen, I opened a terminal and ran modprobe psmouse IIRC and the mouse was instantly freed up. Magic! Next put psmouse IIRC in /etc/modules alongside mousedev. Neither have had any bad effect on the 2.4 kernel booting. What is the code you posted for? If I put it in /etc/fstab is it likely to cause any problems with the 2.4.27 kernel? I was going to say the sounds arn't working, but I've run alsaconf and sounds are up and running with Europe's Final Countdown. Whether they still work when I reboot the 2.4 kernel, remains to be seen. Big thanks to you and uberNUT69 for the help.
Nigel. aka farpoint

You do not need the IIRC there it is short hand for If I Recall Correctly so remove that part. The psmouse is what the mousedev changed too in in kernel 2.6 so you will get an error when booting a 2.4 kernel but it will not matter. The line for the /etc/fstab is needed for the new sysfs that is again used with a 2.6 kernel and will do no harm booting a 2.4.

Having discover installed should negate the need to modify /etc/modules.
I'm not sure what the official Debian method is, but I consider modifying /etc/modules
to be a last resort, particularly if switching back and forth between 2.4 and 2.6.

I'm not convinced about the sysfs entry (or its bearing on this problem)
mostly because I have no such entry, but sysfs is loaded ('df -a' shows it).

Hi Folks. Well. Yes. "IIRC" . Anyway it must have given you a laugh. It gave me one when I read the mail this morning, and what modprobe thought of it I don't know. Probably thought I wasn't any good at remembering modules and had added the comment. If mousedev has been replaced by psmouse can I safely remove it from /etc/modules? The 2.4 kernel booted ok without it. Everthing seems ok with 2.6 apart from the usb. Its ok with kernel 2.4, and is listed in /proc/bus/usb. But with 2.6 kernel the usb directory is empty. Running usbview, I get.
cannot open the file /proc/bus/usb/devices (obvious cause device file missing)
verify usb compiled in kernel. ( checked in kernel modules, and core and host files are there)
have usb core modules loaded. (yes according to dmesg)
have usbdevfs filesystem mounted. (Thats the questionable one)

Dmesg for 2.6 kernel.
usbcore: new driver usbfs
usbcore: new driver hub
usbcore: new driver usbkbd (think I can remove that one as its for alphanumeric keyboard isn't it)
usbcore: new driver snd-usb-audio

Just as a side issue in case the usb problem is an easy fix. Do you know where the datestamped update log is for .deb files downloaded. Yum log is in /var/log . RPMS's DL'd with apt on FC1 and FC2 are rpm -q -a --last , but I can't find a log anywhere for .DEB files DL'd with apt.

Thats about the lot for this post IIRC.

Seriously, I'm very gratefull for all the help. Nigel. aka farpoint.

I just installed the usbview and it showed the only device I have namely my APC battery backup that connects via the usb cable.

Quote:

verify usb compiled in kernel. ( checked in kernel modules, and core and host files are there) have usb core modules loaded. (yes according to dmesg) have usbdevfs filesystem mounted. (Thats the questionable one) Dmesg for 2.6 kernel. usbcore: new driver usbfs usbcore: new driver hub usbcore: new driver usbkbd (think I can remove that one as its for alphanumeric keyboard isn't it) usbcore: new driver snd-usb-audio

My output is similar however I have a couple of extras detected.

Code:

>$ dmesg | grep usb
usbcore: registered new driver usbfs
usbcore: registered new driver hub
usbcore: registered new driver hiddev
usbcore: registered new driver usbhid
drivers/usb/input/hid-core.c: v2.0:USB HID core driver
usb 1-1: new low speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2
hiddev96: USB HID v1.10 Device [APC Back-UPS ES 500 FW:2.e2.D USB FW:e2] on usb-0000:00:07.2-1

And the only module I load for usb is this one.

Code:

uhci_hcd               30160  0

However I have the others built into the kernel so you may want to try loading them as well.

Code:

>$ grep -i hid /boot/config-2.6.10-ck5
CONFIG_USB_HID=y
CONFIG_USB_HIDINPUT=y
# CONFIG_HID_FF is not set
CONFIG_USB_HIDDEV=y
# CONFIG_USB_PHIDGETKIT is not set
# CONFIG_USB_PHIDGETSERVO is not set

As to the usb keyboard module I am not sure on that one the only usb device I have every had is the battery backup although trying with the above modules may be worth it. Also look at the modules that get loaded on your 2.4 kernel and check for the new modules in the 2.6 the names have changed for at least 3 that I know of the new uhci_hcd, ohci_hcd and ehci_hcd.

Quote:

Just as a side issue in case the usb problem is an easy fix. Do you know where the datestamped update log is for .deb files downloaded. Yum log is in /var/log . RPMS's DL'd with apt on FC1 and FC2 are rpm -q -a --last , but I can't find a log anywhere for .DEB files DL'd with apt. Thats about the lot for this post IIRC. Seriously, I'm very gratefull for all the help. Nigel. aka farpoint.

Apt does not keep a log at all if you want that then you will have to switch to aptitude then you would find the log in /var/log/aptitude.log I presume as I only use apt and dpkg for installing packages but it would be a good guess on my part I would say.

Hi Stephen. Done the job man. modprobe uhci_hcd, open usbview, usb's there, and usb midi keyboard. Shame about the update logs. I get on really well using apt and havn't used aptitude before. So much to learn. So little time to learn it in. Thanks again and may the source truly be with you. Nigel. aka farpoint.


Weather report: Northern France. Quite mild, rain this morning (early) Sun on and off during the day. More rain early evening. Dog played in the garden. Chicken layed an egg, and I got there before it could eat it. Darned cannibals!

Hi Stephen. Just a comment. I commented out mousedev in /etc/modules and rebooted the 2.6 kernel, but it would only boot into text mode. It seems like the 2.6.8-2-386 kernel needs both mousedev & psmouse to be loaded, at least on my machine, for X to start and the mouse to behave properly.
Nigel. aka farpoint.