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Old 01-04-2013, 06:09 PM   #31
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
I'm pretty sure my post said if a user wants the non free verion of firefox the prefered method would be to download the tar file, extract it, and run the bin file from the extracted file.
I'm pretty sure my comment was about this bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
What was stated about using Mint Debian repo works as well.

Last edited by k3lt01; 01-04-2013 at 06:13 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 06:19 PM   #32
BCBuch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I'm pretty sure my comment was about this bit.
It may have been, but as I stated in both posts the preferred method would be to use the download from Mozilla. Doesn't much matter what you were referring to be honest. Stop being a douche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
What was stated about using Mint Debian repo works as well. The one draw back is after installing something out of the Mint Debian repos if you don't comment the repos in your /etc/apt/sources.list and only use them for specific packages you may end up with some of Mint's packages altered for their flavored release.

I would say it boils down to ones experience and comfort level with their distro and if they are comfortable doing modifications that they may have to fix if they fail.
I had all covered there including a warning. So bugger off.

Last edited by BCBuch; 01-04-2013 at 07:22 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 07:57 PM   #33
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
It may have been
No "may have been" at all, it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
but as I stated in both posts the preferred method would be to use the download from Mozilla. Doesn't much matter what you were referring to be honest.
As others, including myself had also stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
Stop being a douche.
Hmmmm what's wrong with this scene?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
I had all covered there including a warning.
All had already been convered, you added nothing new to this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
So bugger off.
No.

This thread had run its course, and had everything covered, before you joined LQ and then joined this thread. Who is
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
being a douche
I'd love to see if your IP and cavedweller's IP match.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #34
BCBuch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Who is I'd love to see if your IP and cavedweller's IP match.
Kind of old technology there. Maybe do a little looking here you might learn something http://insecure.org/.

Really you haven't covered a thing in this thread except gripe at some one who posted a solution that didn't follow staight debian repos, or installing the debian unbranded version.

I made one comment and you started in on me. Doesn't say much for the forum with senior members like that.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 09:09 PM   #35
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
Really you haven't covered a thing in this thread except gripe at some one who posted a solution that didn't follow staight debian repos, or installing the debian unbranded version.
1 - He did more than gripe. He also explained why the procedure is unwise to someone who is clearly misinformed.
2 - The dark turn in the thread happened when someone took offence and lashed out, because it was pointed out that his advice is not the best idea.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 09:11 PM   #36
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
Stop being a douche. (..) bugger off.
Since you are new here you probably need to acclimatize. So look up netiquette, check the LQ Rules and understand that what you posted was completely uncalled for. Do not do that again.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 09:19 PM   #37
k3lt01
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I'd send you a PM to get this off the public forum but you haven't posted enough to get a PM box yet so here goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
Kind of old technology there. Maybe do a little looking here you might learn something http://insecure.org/.
It was my way of saying I wouldn't be surprised if you and cavedweller were one and the same. I'm not really all that interested in you or cavedweller, what I am interested in is that noobies get good advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
Really you haven't covered a thing in this thread except gripe at some one who posted a solution that didn't follow staight debian repos, or installing the debian unbranded version.
I never claimed that I covered anything. The other poster made small but fundamental mistakes. I'd hate for a noobie to break their system because they followed Cavedwellers advice and added repos that are not Debian and then installed something that they shouldn't have. If that makes me a bad man then so be it, I can live with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
I made one comment and you started in on me.
Lolololol, I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01
No one here, as far as I can see, said it wouldn't work but it was said that it is not advisable, and it isn't advisable, to mix and match repos from different distros. If Ubuntu or Mint add a dependency that breaks Debian who is going to help the noobie fix it? probably not the person who suggested adding it because they have done a scram and run away so it will be left to the rest of us to help the noob fix it even after we said "please don't do that".
At no stage in that post did I have a go at you and if you think I did then you need to think what is wrong when you take an innocent comment to heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
Doesn't say much for the forum with senior members like that.
Don't attack the forum because of me.
 
Old 01-04-2013, 09:47 PM   #38
unSpawn
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That's quite enough. Please help the OP, discuss only the topic at hand and get this thread back on track,
TIA.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 04:21 AM   #39
cynwulf
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Going over old ground here, but a few important facts nevertheless:

- Debian patch firefox/iceweasel

- Debian also patch many of the other packages in the Debian repos

- The removal of the branding is at the insistence of mozilla because they do not permit modification of firefox and redistribution under the firefox name and branding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozill...Iceweasel_name

- If you haven't worked it out by now, this does not seem to have anything to do with free software "zealotry" or Debian not wanting to use the firefox branding because of trademarks.

- Anyone unhappy with Debian's patching of Iceweasel should not be removing it and installing firefox - they should not be running Debian at all. They should also consider avoiding all other distros who apply their own patches to upstream software.

- Most of the talk about Iceweasel not working on certain sites, is due to the user agent - which takes a few minutes to change to the firefox one (personally I've never needed to change it but YMMV).

- The talk about Iceweasel crashing more, or being more unstable than Firefox is mostly FUD. In most cases people are comparing different versions (i.e. iceweasel 3.x from stable and the latest firefox...), not a real side by side comparison with the same version of firefox built from source.

- Newer versions of iceweasel are available in backports and the http://mozilla.debian.net/ repo.

- Other perceived Iceweasel bugs may be libcairo, graphics driver or X server bugs (as has been the case on a few occasions). In many of these cases, stand alone "static" binary firefox, running from e.g. the user's home directory may not be affected by these issues (hardly surprising).

- I avoid the above problem(s) by using Opera.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 05:18 PM   #40
widget
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBuch View Post
What was stated downloading firefox directly from mozilla, extracting the tar file and running it from the extracted folder or dumping the bin file in /usr/bin to speed up the start up time. That is pretty distro neutral.

That works in stable, testing, and unstable. Just saying.

What was stated about using Mint Debian repo works as well. The one draw back is after installing something out of the Mint Debian repos if you don't comment the repos in your /etc/apt/sources.list and only use them for specific packages you may end up with some of Mint's packages altered for their flavored release.

I would say it boils down to ones experience and comfort level with their distro and if they are comfortable doing modifications that they may have to fix if they fail.

I have used Debian testing and use Vmware Player to test different distros and tweak them. That includes changing the sources in Mint Debian and converting it to Debian unstable.

If a person is set on using firefox non free, I would suggest the option of downloading directly from mozilla, axtracting,and running from the file.

By the way Hello to you all.
There you have the difference between a package from Ubuntu and a package from Debian and a package from Mozilla. The tar from Mozilla will work in Mageia. The package from Ubuntu may break Debian. A FF package from Debian would, of coarse be a counterfit but if there was such a thing it may break Ubuntu.

The reason is that Ubuntu has fairly drastically deviated from the standard Linux file system. While there are some small differences in most distros, for the most part they stick with the blue print for the file system. When they get a package, from upstream like Mozilla or Debian, they have to package it for thier repos.

From Mozilla this will mean making an Ubuntu .deb package.

From Debian it will mean modifying the Debian .deb to be an Ubuntu .deb. This will mainly involve an edit of the install script which is part of that package. The install script is where the depends should be visible to dpkg and the directions for where each file in the package is to be placed.

If you run a search for a package, say Plymouth, in your favorite search engine and look at the depends for that package in both Debian and Ubuntu, they will not match. If you dig deep you can find what packages in each distro depend on Plymouth. These will not match. This is an extreme example but it illistrates the potential differences between packages in different distros.

Then there are differences in the file system that will absolutely bite you on the butt. They are less common but even more damaging. If the system is looking for a package /lib to run a certain application and that file is, in fact, installed in /usr/lib it will not run.

In that case you have 2 packages installed that use the same libwhatever file. One is native to the distro and one is from some other distro. dpkg knows that libwhatever is installed so it does not pull it in as a depend when installing the external package. You will probably get a failure message from dpkg that the install failed do to missing that file.

That is because when looking to see if the file is installed it just checkes its record of what is installed. When installing the external package it is trying to connect some file from that package to libwhatever in a particular location indicated by the install script. The package is not there.

The kind folks at Linux Mint, that maintain Cinnamon and Mate, realize that Mate is popular with a number of people. Rather than have folks breaking their system installing Mate from the LMDE repo on an Ubuntu install they have a Mate repo set up for Wheezy, Sid and Ubuntu (also Mint and LMDE). Those 3 repos have different addresses and will work on the distro and version discribed.

In most cases it is, in fact, safer to get a .rpm package somewhere and install on a .deb system using "alien" to install it than to install a .deb from an other distro.
 
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:37 PM   #41
widget
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As a side note.

The LMDE site notes that they use Debian packages. They simply are supplying a stable snapshot of Debian testing. This means that their system is fully compatible with the Debian repos and any possible instability found there.

So using Debian packages is probably safe in LMDE.

Using LMDE packages in Debian will be more risky. This is because they are relatively old packages. They are out of date.

There may be some serious depends problems with them. Installing with aptitude may get around some of these for any particular package but may leave some other packages broken because they depend on a newer version of the depend package in question.

It took a long time to get dependency hell out of installing Linux packages. Now folks have gotten the idea that any .rpm will work in any RPM system and any .deb will work in any APT system. This is not true.

It will make life more interesting and educational however. Make damned sure that you have an unadulterated install or a full backup of your install before doing these things.
 
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