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Old 02-22-2005, 08:58 PM   #1
1702fp
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Debian stable or non stable


I downloaded Sarge Debian a while ago to see what it would be like to use Debian, Debian is the fastest. most reliable most stable version of Linux that I've ever used so Now I would like to buy Debian CD-S direct from the factory only problem is that I don't know which version to buy the Version thats listed as stable or the version that is listed as UN- stable

Someone told me not to download the stable version because the UN stable version was better... I have no idea why but lol anyways I dont want to make a mistake and buy the wrong version so I thought Id come here and ask before purchasing the CD/s

Here is the link to the website where I plan to buy the Official version of Debian http://010101.biz/

Any suggestions on which one to buy will be appreciated I should recive the CD/s by friday if I place the order today

Last edited by 1702fp; 02-22-2005 at 09:00 PM.
 
Old 02-22-2005, 09:14 PM   #2
dastrike
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The definitive answer depends on what are you intending to do with it.


If for desktop/workstation usage, I strongly discourage from using the current Debian stable ('woody') 3.0 release as that is effectively almost three years old by now... It just can't provide an enjoyable desktop/workstation experience, and it can be problematic to get installed on very recent hardware.

For desktop/workstation usage I recommend using the Debian testing ('sarge') version as that is pretty much up to date regarding everything.

The unstable ('sid') version is only recommended really if one is ready to accept that things can and will break sooner or later, and is familiar with the apt/dpkg utils with how to fix things when such breakage occurs.

In my opinion the best solution currently regarding Debian is to use testing and then if necessary use certain packages from unstable.


Installation images for Debian testing 'sarge' can be found here: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
If you have a decent Internet connection (non-dialup), I recommend using the net installation image from there.
And as you mentioned you are considering purchasing disks, I am not aware of any places where one could buy a set of disks of 'sarge'.

Last edited by dastrike; 02-22-2005 at 09:16 PM.
 
Old 02-22-2005, 10:29 PM   #3
1702fp
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Thanks

I was going to buy the version that is listed as being stable because I assumed that it would be better to buy a version thats stable.. instead of one that is still being tested... it's a good thing I came here and asked before purchasing the OS

Here is the version that I'm going to purchase

Debian GNU/Linux testing ("Sarge")

The 'testing' distribution of Debian, Sarge (also named for a Toy Story character), is currently undergoing refinement for impending release as Debian 3.1. Sarge offers a much newer collection of software and a greatly improved installer. However, it lacks the degree of testing that the 'stable' release has endured and is not yet supported by the Debian security team. The significance of the updates in Sarge make it the suggested distribution if you are installing outside a server environment.
Architecture

Media

Discs

Price

Cart
x86 - AMD, Intel, etc. ("x86")

CD 14
DVD 2


$31.78
$19.98

14 CD-s daymn lol
 
Old 02-22-2005, 10:29 PM   #4
Pr1musr3x
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1702fp, it really depends on what you intend to use Debian for. If timely security updates are important for you i.e. you run a server and that glitzy eye candy is something you can do without then Debian Woody 3.0 r 4 is for you. Sarge aka Debian 3.1 while destained to be next Stable soon, and apparently the DPL - Martin Michlmayr indicated in a recent interview carried by newsforge.com that it is likely to be by this month, to be absolutely honest, we cannot at this point afford you a definite date as to when "soon" is. In Debian talk, it'll be ready when it is ready. Many has critisized Debian as trying to play god in ensuring that the base code is so thoroughly audited. It is something akin to the OpenBSD of the GNU/Linux world and consequently the reputation for being a secure and stable distro (base install excluding add-ons like GUI DEs and apps).

Contrary to what many thinks about Testing aka Sarge i.e. that being near a release date, its security infrastructure/buildd should be well in place, well, it is NOT. According to sjoerd, seb28 (Sebastian Bacher), ross (Ross Burton of Debian X-Strikeforce and Debian GNOME fame), jordim (Jordi Mallach), thom, lool and other devels/maintainers hanging out on #debian-devel on irc.freenode.net and #gnome-debian on irc.gnome.org, at the moment if one wants security updates for Testing/Sarge, one has to manually fetch them from Unstable/Sid.

Now, let's consider Unstable/Sid, have been running it for years now, has it given me problems? To be honest, yes. But does it deserve its reputation of being "unstable", I and many others running a mix of Unstable/Experimental aka Sid/Scud beg to differ. To run Unstable/Experimental, you are likely to be one who wants the very latest, haemorragingly bleeding edge software, many a times within hours or at most a few days after new package versions are released by upstream authors e.g. abiword went straight into Unstable the day upstream announced a new point release. Going a bit further back, GNOME 2.8 hit Experimental but an hour (was prior to this existing as GNOME 2.7 for weeks) after the official announcement of its launch by GNOME itself. To run Unstable/Experimental, you NEED to install apt-listchanges, apt-listbugs so that you not get any unwanted shocks to your nervous system.

What do apt-listchanges and list-bugs do? Well, they do what their names imply they do i.e. one fetches the changelogs containg changes, patches from both upstream as well as from the Debian devels/maintainers/nmu, the other fetches the bug reports for the packages off b.d.o. Debian Unstable aka Sid is times more Stable than Slackware Current or Mandrake ever is or ever can be. It is the Experimental branch/distro (an imcomplete distro by itself, Debianists use it in combination with Unstable) that is buggy. In running Experimental, you need to acquaint yourself with the idea/philosophy i.e. "if it breaks, I get to keep the pieces". One can very well just run Unstable/Sid alone without the need for Experimental, many do. I just happened to be one of those who don't. Ultimately, the choice is in your OWN hands.

Before I end, let me say that be it Testing/Sarge OR Unstable/Sid or Unstable + Experimental i.e. Sid + Scud, WITHOUT broadband, they are NO fun. The TRUE power of the APT suite can only be experienced and felt with a broadband connection be it for the installation of binary .debs or building/rebuilding of source packages (.tar.gz) from e.g. http://mentors.debian.net/ or packaging your own debs (fetching the necessary dependencies along the way).

Just me 1 * 10^-99 cents.


Last edited by Pr1musr3x; 02-22-2005 at 10:35 PM.
 
Old 02-22-2005, 11:02 PM   #5
Pr1musr3x
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One thing that I missed out explaining i.e. Colin Watson - man behind the Debian Release Team replied in a thread on the Debian User mailing lists about a year or so ago explained that "Unstable" does not neccessarily mean the packages in this release/branch/distro are inherently buggy but rather Unstable is a branch that is "volatile" i.e. where packages are constantly on the move either out of Experimental and into Unstable or from Unstable into Testing. Do not attempt to interpret "Unstable" literally, interpret it the Debian way.

 
Old 02-23-2005, 08:14 PM   #6
rbochan
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Quote:
...Do not attempt to interpret "Unstable" literally, interpret it the Debian way.
Yep, from how I understand things, stable/unstable refers to the package versions. In the stable release, the package versions remain the same (aka stable), whilst with the unstable branch they often change - ergo unstable.
For example, in the stable release, if you install the package foo-3.2.1.deb, later on down the road, even after a year's worth of security updates and such, it will still be foo-3.2.1.deb (though perhaps with a -1 or -2 tacked on to the end). This allows for things like particular apps to keep on working if they rely on a certain package version.

It has nothing to do with whether or not something will crash. Keep that idea of unstable for winders ;o)
 
Old 02-23-2005, 10:56 PM   #7
1702fp
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Yeah, everything is UN stable in the windows world lol

any idea when Sarge will become official, The CD-s should arrive on Monday now I'm beginning to wonder if the Official version will be released the day after my order arrives

I'm also hopping that the 14 CD-s will come pre equipped with an x server etc this way I wont have to use the command like to apt-get everything
 
Old 02-24-2005, 12:33 AM   #8
f1dave
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In all honesty i don't think it matters.

As soon as sarge becomes official, i'll still stay on the bleeding edge with the new testing version, whatever that will be called...
 
Old 02-24-2005, 12:57 AM   #9
Pr1musr3x
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Quote:
Originally posted by f1dave
In all honesty i don't think it matters.

As soon as sarge becomes official, i'll still stay on the bleeding edge with the new testing version, whatever that will be called...
f1dave, the new "testing" after Sarge is "Etch". My advise is do not try to run it. From experience, there is a period i.e. ~6 months after a Stable release to ~1 year prior to the next Stable, "testing" is often in a quite b0rked and poorly maintained state. This was the case with Woody after Potato's release and Sarge some 6 months after Woody's release. If you really want to live "Dangerously" (just jkg ) ... I mean on the "Bleeding Edge" of things, perform a dist-upgrade and pin Unstable instead.

 
Old 02-24-2005, 01:16 AM   #10
f1dave
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Heh, yeah that may be an idea.

Etch eh? As in the little etch-a-sketch dude? Hmm. Living dangerously during that period may be more like living as Roger Explosion. (Don't try and understand that if you're not Australian or haven't seen Full Frontal. Ahh FF, how we miss you.) :P

Dave.
 
Old 02-24-2005, 01:23 AM   #11
Pr1musr3x
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heh. We sure have a jovial bunch of crazies and pervies in Debian Some pixies to share from the recent LinuxWorld conf Boston 2005.

http://pictures.ebnj.net/lweboston05
http://people.debian.org/~dnusinow/LinuxWorld/

Courtesy of wierdos - Ari, Ben Mako Hill, and David.
Check out http://planet.debian.org/ also.

 
Old 02-24-2005, 02:03 AM   #12
f1dave
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How dare you imply that I am crazy or perverted.

I'm simply an angry, misunderstood and manic-psychotic man. Well, that's what the court said when they saw me sharpening an extremely large knife in the presence of the current F1 world champion.
 
Old 02-24-2005, 02:59 AM   #13
harken
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BTW, I also noticed in a HOWTO (copyrighted 2005) on Debian's page that currently Etch is testing and Sarge is the stable version. But I didn't see any official announcement saying that. The main page still claims that Sarge corresponds to testing.

So, which is which at the moment? Are the Debian mirrors 'testing' branches pointing to Etch or to Sarge?
 
Old 02-24-2005, 03:58 AM   #14
Pr1musr3x
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Quote:
Originally posted by harken
BTW, I also noticed in a HOWTO (copyrighted 2005) on Debian's page that currently Etch is testing and Sarge is the stable version. But I didn't see any official announcement saying that. The main page still claims that Sarge corresponds to testing.

So, which is which at the moment? Are the Debian mirrors 'testing' branches pointing to Etch or to Sarge?
No official announcement yet harken. The security buildd on a few of the arches are not fully in place yet. I'm curious as to which HOWTO and on which page that is that you are referring to. 2 of the first places where news of an impending release will be broadcasted will be the devel channels e.g. #debian-devel, #debian-boot and the users' channel - #debian on irc.freenode.net and #gnome-debian on irc.gnome.org. I'm a reg on these channels. No news thus far sorry.

Topic for #debian-devel for those interested happens to be:
-:- Topic (#debian-devel): Release status, upload targets and urgency: http://xrl.us/e8cd | gluck: overloaded; alioth: overloaded, disks full | 2005 Archive gpg key: http://ftp-master.debian.org/ziyi_key_2005.asc; fpr: 4c7a e5e 9454 fe3f ae1e 78ad f1d5 3d8c 4f36 8d5d | dbs-ng: http://xrl.us/e3x9 | xen 2.0: http://xrl.us/e3ya | Branden for DPL: http://xrl.us/e48p | Schneier reports sha-1 broken
-:- Topic (#debian-devel): set by lool at Wed Feb 23 16:46:38 2005

Topic for #debian:
Topic (#debian): READ FAQ: http://www.linuks.mine.nu/debian-faq-wiki/ | READ BTS: /msg dpkg bts | Paste in #flood or /msg dpkg paster, NOT here | /msg bots NOT people | Knoppix/Ubuntu/Mepis/Kurumin are NOT Debian | Sarge Base+Standard frozen; installer: /msg dpkg d-i | sarge not out /msg dpkg wwsr | X.org -> /msg dpkg xorg | Java -> /msg dpkg java | YES, xserver-xfree86 -12 IS BUSTED ON i386
-:- Topic (#debian): set by dondelelcaro at Wed Feb 23 13:09:02 2005

Topic for #gnome-debian on irc.gnome.org reads:
-:- Topic (#gnome-debian): GNOME 2.8.2 in testing | Contact jbailey if interested in maintaining evolution-exchange | Get Sound-Juicer, now with version inflation! | <jordi> joey: gee, don't call me "official non-mainainer" of evo or people will joke at me in #gnome-debian
-:- Topic (#gnome-debian): set by jordim at Fri Feb 11 17:22:30 2005


The only news of significance - well, significant for me is that gtk+2.0/2.6.2-3 will enter testing tonight for all archs including s390.


Last edited by Pr1musr3x; 02-24-2005 at 04:19 AM.
 
Old 02-24-2005, 04:12 AM   #15
Pr1musr3x
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Quote:
Originally posted by f1dave
sharpening an extremely large knife in the presence of the current F1 world champion.
You sure you were not the one caught calling to ATTENTION! your woody while dressed as Sarge in the presence of the Minogue sisters f1dave?

Last edited by Pr1musr3x; 02-24-2005 at 04:20 AM.
 
  


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