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Old 08-20-2004, 03:20 PM   #1
vxc69
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Thumbs up Debian Review - (Debian was made for KDE)


My review of Debian:


Being a newbie, I didn't want to deal with Debian because they called sarge a "testing" version. Well it may be a "testing" version but it's rock solid (and it was built for KDE).

Okay, let me get to the point:

I've used Suse 6.1, Red Hat 7.3, Mandrake 9.2, Mandrake 10 and Fedora Core 2.

Keeping Suse aside you can see that the rest of the distributions I've used is pretty much red hat or based on red hat.

Recently, I got a copy of Knoppix 3.4 (Debian based live CD) from a local LUG member. I loved it, because unlike any of the distributions I've used, KDE worked super fast. So I did an hd install, played around with it and loved it sooo much I decided to do a net-install of Debian Sarge. It took some time to download and install but in the end it was worth it.

I couldn't believe the difference in speed when I compared Debian to any of the other distributions.

These are my specs:
P4 1.7 GHQ
256 RD-RAM

I'm so excited I can't wait to get my hands on the 8 CD's.

I think I'm gonna start callin my self a Debian man

vxc

Last edited by vxc69; 08-20-2004 at 05:09 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2004, 03:27 PM   #2
vxc69
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Or should I say KDE was made for Debian?
 
Old 08-20-2004, 03:30 PM   #3
XavierP
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Moved: This thread is more suitable in Debian and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.

Have you thought about submitting this to our Distro Review Section?
 
Old 08-20-2004, 04:07 PM   #4
vxc69
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I knew it was going to get moved .

I'll submit a new one to the Distro review section once I get all 8 CD's. (I know this cool Buddhist Monk who uses linux. He set up a local Open Source Software Center where anyone could buy anything open source)

,
vxc
 
Old 08-20-2004, 04:45 PM   #5
utanja
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i am curious as to why you think Debian was made for KDE.....

i use gnome and would like your opinion as to why KDE over gnome...

Last edited by utanja; 08-20-2004 at 05:15 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2004, 05:00 PM   #6
vxc69
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Gnome is good. In fact Gnome works better than KDE on Fedora and Red Hat. This points out to the fact that Gnome is actually better in terms of responsiveness.

But I use KDE because:

1.) I started using KDE before Gnome.
2.) I was never able to get used to Gnome.
3.) I love the KDE theme Baghira!
4.) Being a previous "luser", I'm still used to those bloated effects and themes.

I'm hoping to move over to Gnome and get used to it. Then I hope to never ever use a DM - maybe something simple like IceWM.

Ah, the mighty power of the CLI

EDIT: BTW, Ich habe einen hund!

Last edited by vxc69; 08-20-2004 at 05:02 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2004, 05:18 PM   #7
utanja
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sprichts du deutsch? deutscher, schweizer oder oesterreicher?

Last edited by utanja; 08-20-2004 at 07:47 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2004, 05:20 PM   #8
vxc69
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Ich sprachen [insert german words for "a little bit" here] auf deutsch.

I think thats correct

Ich bin nicht deutscher, shweizer oder oesterreicher!

Last edited by vxc69; 08-20-2004 at 05:22 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2004, 05:34 PM   #9
utanja
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Quote:
Originally posted by vxc69
Ich spreche<sprachen> wenig[insert german words for "a little bit" here] auf deutsch.

I think thats correct

Ich bin nicht deutscher, shweizer oder oesterreicher!
ah...
 
Old 08-20-2004, 07:51 PM   #10
macondo
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hehe! it goes like this:

Newbie installs Debian/Linux and KDE because it's pretty, because it has programs that do things he doesn't know how to do, nor he wants to understand. Because EVERYBODY he knows uses KDE.

Newbie becomes radical, moves to GNOME, that's where is at, the articles he reads say so, maybe somebody he admires uses GNOME, etc.

Newbie comes to the realization, the above mentioned are crap, all show and no speed. Newbie installs XFCE4, pretty, fast, light. Newbie becomes a revolutionary.

By now, he/she learned to use the CLI and finds out that:

#dpkg -i <first word of downloaded program> + TAB + Enter

is faster than kpackage, and discovered he/she needs no icons on the taskbar with IceWM, because Ctrl + Alt + <letter he/she chooses> will give him/her an xterm, or Xchat or Mozilla, or OOo, or whatever he wants.

It's fast as lightning and saves him/her 100+ MB of space, it never gives you any problem no matter what new version comes out.

Newbie becomes a guerilla, he wants to get to his apps fast, he can't care less about eye candy or desklets, because it doesn't matter if he is running an old box with 64 MB of memory or 256, he is flying. Newbie starts reinstalling Debian several times a month, doing minimal installs, choosing his apps based on light weight and speed, always looking for an edge, he wants his Debian lean and mean, newbie is growing up. Newbie starts RTFM, for the sport of it, learning, reading for the hell of it.

Newbie begins to understand Gnu/Debian.

Last edited by macondo; 08-21-2004 at 08:00 PM.
 
Old 08-21-2004, 01:45 AM   #11
vxc69
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WOW ! So thats what's ahead!
 
Old 08-21-2004, 04:57 AM   #12
powadha
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Yeah, or you just use Debian the way you like it since you are on a blazing fast expensive pc and you don't care about 100+ mb since you have gigs to spare and more memory then you can count........

Which does make it a lot less fun though....personally I go both ways. Most of the time I use fluxbox but on one of the other clients KDE does its thing. Guess it's all up to what you want with your box. If you're not into learning and just want to use your pc stick with KDE or Gnome, anything else will make you end up with Fluxbox, ICEwm or the likes.....

Installing Debian several times a month is crap btw. You don't have to since you can always remove or add things easily in Debian (or whatever distro) Thats what makes linux so much better then Windows.

Cheers

Last edited by powadha; 08-21-2004 at 04:59 AM.
 
Old 08-21-2004, 12:27 PM   #13
macondo
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"Installing Debian several times a month is crap btw. You don't have to since you can always remove or add things easily in Debian (or whatever distro) Thats what makes linux so much better then Windows."

Hehe, let's say you want to make a net install instead of a cd one (because you want to learn how to do it), you want to try the new beta installer, you want to try a reiserfs, xfs, or any other file system, you want to try a different woody based on a different file system, You want to see how MEPIS, KANOTIX or Libranet 2.8.1 behaves, you only got a 10 MB hd, THEN YOU HAVE TO REINSTALL, because you are trying new things.

As for KDE, if it behaves reasonably on a fast processor with lots of RAM, can you imagine what IceWM/Fluxbox/WMaker would do on it? Talk about crap, huh?


Last edited by macondo; 08-21-2004 at 12:33 PM.
 
Old 08-21-2004, 12:59 PM   #14
powadha
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Quote:
Originally posted by macondo
"Installing Debian several times a month is crap btw. You don't have to since you can always remove or add things easily in Debian (or whatever distro) Thats what makes linux so much better then Windows."

Hehe, let's say you want to make a net install instead of a cd one (because you want to learn how to do it), you want to try the new beta installer, you want to try a reiserfs, xfs, or any other file system, you want to try a different woody based on a different file system, You want to see how MEPIS, KANOTIX or Libranet 2.8.1 behaves, you only got a 10 MB hd, THEN YOU HAVE TO REINSTALL, because you are trying new things.
True, but you'd better get a second client, this way you won't be able to do much work on deb. In the end people install debian or linux to use software on because it's stable and fast. Not to install an OS several times a month. Just installing debian won't make you a linux expert, using it and reading about it does. Most people don't care about the filesystem and if they do they usually know what they are doing and make their pick before installing depending on their use of the system. Installing MEPIS or whatever can be usefull if it fills your needs. Personally I use straight deb and configure the clients for their needs myself. More fun and better for your skills. Whatever they offer can be build or installed by you.

Quote:
As for KDE, if it behaves reasonably on a fast processor with lots of RAM, can you imagine what IceWM/Fluxbox/WMaker would do on it? Talk about crap, huh?
Yes I can....Like I said I have several pc's running debian and the faster ones use KDE next to Flux, the older once only flux or no X at all. On older pc's it does make a difference (big one) which is not surprising. On the faster pc's the difference isn't enough to make it noticable (or enoying if you like). Perhaps you should try and configure KDE a bit better before reinstalling debian I'm a Flux fan but won't recommend it to a newbie, you need those icons if you're new in linux since it's about the only thing left the same after leaving wincrap

If you use linux only to install and reinstall then go ahead and have fun. If you actually want to use your system for other uses then installing I guess a different approach is needed. A second pc is always fun btw, installing new stuff can be tested and screw ups won't matter that much.
 
Old 08-21-2004, 02:23 PM   #15
macondo
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"True, but you'd better get a second client, this way you won't be able to do much work on deb."

A second client??? Where do you live, pal? In the First World? Most of the people who use Debian or any other Linux live in the Third World (Windows is out, too expensive, too insecure), this is done out of necessity, not by choice.
You have to make do with a Pentium or PII.

"In the end people install debian or linux to use software on because it's stable and fast. Not to install an OS several times a month."

Obviously. You work all week, and on the weekend you reinstall to learn more about what you are doing.

"Just installing debian won't make you a linux expert, using it and reading about it does."

I disagree, in doing is where you learn, you can read all you want, but if you don't use cfdisk and do different partitions schemes, you are not going to learn didly.

"Most people don't care about the filesystem and if they do they usually know what they are doing and make their pick before installing depending on their use of the system."

Correction: it's not that they don't care, it is that they DON'T KNOW. How are they going to learn, if they don't experiment? Do it?

"Installing MEPIS or whatever can be usefull if it fills your needs. Personally I use straight deb and configure the clients for their needs myself. More fun and better for your skills. Whatever they offer can be build or installed by you."

It's pretty evident you don't see my point: i use Debian/Sid, but other debian based distros intrigue me, in order to check them out, i have to install them, i don't use knoppix, but i had to install it, otherwise, how can I have an opinion about it?, by reading?

"Yes I can....Like I said I have several pc's running debian and the faster ones use KDE next to Flux, the older once only flux or no X at all. On older pc's it does make a difference (big one) which is not surprising."

Agreed.


"On the faster pc's the difference isn't enough to make it noticable (or enoying if you like)."

How can this be? The wms above mentioned, weigh from 500kb to 1MB, KDE is OVER
100 MB!


"Perhaps you should try and configure KDE a bit better before reinstalling debian "

Oh, but i've done it, my PII/266 is slow with KDE, no matter what i do, KDE is a bloated behemoth that does not do anything for me THAT IceWM/Fluxbox/WMaker doesn't do faster. With KDE, i have to WAIT, for it to come on, with the other three, it's instantaneous. It is faster than my neighbor's P4 with KDE, finally, he saw the light and now uses XFCE4.


"I'm a Flux fan but won't recommend it to a newbie, you need those icons if you're new in linux since it's about the only thing left the same after leaving wincrap "

Really? I think you are underestimating some newbies, what can be easier than right-clicking on the desktop or the 'slit', and choosing from the Debian menu? Fluxbox is the most popular wm, voted the most intuitive wm by Slashdot or was it Newsforge?

"If you use linux only to install and reinstall then go ahead and have fun."

You are assuming that is ALL i do, i got a job, weekends i reserve for testing and learning, and to me there is fun in learning.

"If you actually want to use your system for other uses then installing I guess a different approach is needed."

Here we go again, why is it hard for you to realize, you can work normally, save everything important to your web-mail, reinstall, screw up, read, google, hit the mailing list, come back with a new configuration, extra knowledge, bring back your docs from Yahoo mail. and start fresh on Monday morning with Sarge, with XFS, Shorewall, GRUB, Debian in Spanish and the rest of the apps? I got the time and the thirst for knowledge, why not? Why do i have to use KDE or GNOME, when in trial after trial, they are slower than IceWM/Fluxbox/WMaker, the eye candy and tons of libraries are such a waste of resources better allocated to speed IMHO.
Now, how would i know this, if not by testing, reinstalling, trying new apps, filesystems, bootloaders, and different debian versions? By reading?

"A second pc is always fun btw, installing new stuff can be tested and screw ups won't matter that much."

Indeed. If you can afford it.

Last edited by macondo; 08-21-2004 at 08:06 PM.
 
  


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