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2014 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards This forum is for the 2014 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards.
You can now vote for your favorite products of 2014. This is your chance to be heard! Voting ends on February 3rd.


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View Poll Results: Desktop Distribution of the Year
antiX 8 0.88%
Arch 38 4.18%
Bodhi 1 0.11%
Chakra 3 0.33%
CrunchBang 9 0.99%
Debian 83 9.12%
elementary OS 4 0.44%
Fedora 42 4.62%
Funtoo 2 0.22%
Gentoo 10 1.10%
Linux Deepin 2 0.22%
Linux Mint 202 22.20%
Mageia 10 1.10%
Mandriva 0 0%
Manjaro 15 1.65%
MEPIS 1 0.11%
openSUSE 32 3.52%
PClinuxOS 17 1.87%
Puppy 2 0.22%
Sabayon 4 0.44%
Salix 8 0.88%
Slackware 202 22.20%
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 2 0.22%
TinyCore 0 0%
Ubuntu 202 22.20%
VectorLinux 0 0%
Zorin OS 1 0.11%
SliTaz 2 0.22%
Korora 0 0%
Calculate 1 0.11%
SolydXK 4 0.44%
Rosa Desktop Fresh 2 0.22%
Peach OSI 1 0.11%
Voters: 910. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-10-2015, 07:54 AM   #181
normanlinux
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Whoops! Included a spurious i in Johm Quarterman's name. Sorry, John!
 
Old 02-10-2015, 08:01 AM   #182
gor0
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That result is very suspicious !

 
Old 02-10-2015, 11:10 AM   #183
gor0
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Why is not kaOS included ???

http://kaosx.us/
 
Old 02-10-2015, 02:49 PM   #184
Head_on_a_Stick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I see, so when you're proven wrong that amounts to "pointless semantic arguments" by others...?


unstable gets a trickle of updates during freeze.


Was that your point? Ok great, I'm sure that someone will find it useful. I didn't see anyone suggesting doing a partial upgrade... presumably you mean pinning a certain package or packages and not upgrading them for days/weeks/months or whatever...?

In fact, I just remembered, the above is common practice to those running Debian unstable...

What about pinning a certain package to a testing version to avoid a bug in unstable? That sounds like a "partial upgrade" to me... sounds bad... I'm sure no one in their right mind does that, but then you're the Debian "rolling" unstable guru from FDN so you tell me...
OK fair enough: I am completely wrong about that -- thank you for correcting me.

I am no "guru" by any stretch of the imagination, I just (wrongly) thought I was offering good advice.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 02-10-2015, 05:54 PM   #185
joe_2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head_on_a_Stick View Post
OK fair enough: I am completely wrong about that -- thank you for correcting me.

I am no "guru" by any stretch of the imagination, I just (wrongly) thought I was offering good advice.
Hmm, I would still argue (and be interested in cynwulf's thought on that) that if you decide to run Debian unstable for an extended period of time and do too much pinning (whatever too much may be) you would eventually run into dependency problems.
If you do this for long enough you would end up with a system where some packages would correspond to stable (or even older), some to testing and some to sid, which is not something you would typically recommend to an average user.

On the other hand this scenario is not directly related to running sid but rather to the fact of having your sources pointed to a dynamic target such as stable/testing/unstable rather than to an explicit release such as wheezy...

Does that make sense?
 
Old 02-10-2015, 06:00 PM   #186
normanlinux
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Partial upgrades are not a problem with Arch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Head_on_a_Stick View Post
Very wise: Arch is like a bike -- it is only stable when it's rolling.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...re_unsupported

@gor0 -- Arch is not for everyone

I must say though, Debian sid should also be fully updated regularly -- it too is rolling release (albeit much more patched than Arch) and I have seen problems on the Debian forums caused by partial upgrades...
Ah, if only people would take the time to digest what they read. All Arch upgrades are partial upgrades - that's what rolling releases do. As the linked-to wiki entry makes clear, you should not upgrade an individual package (by using the pacman -y option to refresh your copy of the package list) as this could lead to instability.

As I posted earlier. I once (in my early days of using Arch) made the mistake of running a very major upgrade, without referring to the notes telling me what to do first, and had to spend a considerable amount of time to get out of the hole I had dug for myself. Apart from that I've not had stability problems with my repeated partial upgrades made using the standard pacman -Suy. Far fewer problems than people encounter with a full upgrade from version x of a distribution to all-new version y
 
Old 02-10-2015, 06:17 PM   #187
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
Hmm, I would still argue (and be interested in cynwulf's thought on that) that if you decide to run Debian unstable for an extended period of time and do too much pinning (whatever too much may be) you would eventually run into dependency problems.
Obviously. legitimate apt pinning - e.g. putting a buggy package on hold until a fix is uploaded to unstable - can only be a temporary solution. It's not for someone who says "I want to always run xorg version X because it works with legacy proprietary video driver Y". That plan is doomed...

You can usually still upgrade where possible, i.e. by running upgrade as opposed to dist-upgrade, but eventually the nature of testing/unstable is that it will have to move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
If you do this for long enough you would end up with a system where some packages would correspond to stable (or even older), some to testing and some to sid, which is not something you would typically recommend to an average user.
Absolutely not, but you wouldn't recommend that the average user run the testing or unstable branches either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
On the other hand this scenario is not directly related to running sid but rather to the fact of having your sources pointed to a dynamic target such as stable/testing/unstable rather than to an explicit release such as wheezy...

Does that make sense?
Pointing your sources to testing or unstable makes sense. Pointing to stable does not. Doing the latter leads to unplanned upgrades - and who wants that?
 
Old 02-10-2015, 06:38 PM   #188
JWJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_2000 View Post
Hmm, I would still argue (and be interested in cynwulf's thought on that) that if you decide to run Debian unstable for an extended period of time and do too much pinning (whatever too much may be) you would eventually run into dependency problems.
JUST SAY NO TO APT-PINNING! If you are already running sid, why?

http://slartie.com/issue_0007/slarti...7.html#topic01

(Full disclosure: I ran Debian for years, but I no longer use Debian at all.)
 
Old 02-10-2015, 07:02 PM   #189
gor0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJones View Post

I ran Debian for years, but I no longer use Debian at all
What is your distro?
 
Old 02-10-2015, 09:39 PM   #190
JWJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gor0 View Post
What is your distro?
I use Slackware and OpenBSD. Professionally (as in, it pays the bills), I use Mac OSX.

Last edited by JWJones; 02-10-2015 at 09:42 PM. Reason: links to scrots
 
Old 02-11-2015, 04:32 AM   #191
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJones View Post
JUST SAY NO TO APT-PINNING! If you are already running sid, why?

http://slartie.com/issue_0007/slarti...7.html#topic01
Yes the article rings very true (despite being a little over the top).

It does not apply in this case however as the apt pinning being discussed is specifically not about mixing stable and testing/unstable.

apt pinning is commonly deployed on a mixed testing/unstable system, you can get away with it and in many cases it's safer, in combination with apt-listbugs, than just running testing or unstable and blindly running dist-upgrade. It's still messy however and requires continuous hands on maintenance.

The safest and most prudent option is to run stable and just install backports (or build your own backports) of any newer software required. For living dangerously on the bleeding edge, Debian is the wrong distro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJones View Post
(Full disclosure: I ran Debian for years, but I no longer use Debian at all.)
Same here.

Last edited by cynwulf; 02-11-2015 at 04:37 AM.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 06:06 AM   #192
normanlinux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJones View Post
JUST SAY NO TO APT-PINNING! If you are already running sid, why?

http://slartie.com/issue_0007/slarti...7.html#topic01

(Full disclosure: I ran Debian for years, but I no longer use Debian at all.)
Interesting, I agree on not using Arch for (public facing) servers, but he misses the point a little in his other criticism of Arch. Many of us use and love Arch because it is up-to-date and pretty stable - we don't use the testing repos. The point that he made about testing for Debian is well taken, but why assume that Arch users all use testing on Arch? Using core, extra and community provides a pretty solid system.

From the Arch Wik:
"core has fairly strict quality requirements. Developers/users need to signoff on updates before package updates are accepted."
"extra contains all packages that do not fit in core. Example: Xorg, window managers, web browsers . . ."
"community contains packages that have been adopted by Trusted Users from the Arch User Repository. Some of these packages may eventually make the transition to the core or extra repositories as the developers consider them crucial to the distribution. "

Additionally, like many Arch users, I occasionally need to use a package from the AUR (Arch User Repository). While some of these are built from source many - such as the files needed by my Epson printer - are taken from existing packages from other distros (such as Debian) and are repackaged at installation time.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 09:33 AM   #193
gor0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
Which distribution do you think is best suited for a Desktop machine?

--jeremy
Have manners and answer: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5315028
 
Old 02-11-2015, 10:23 AM   #194
JWJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gor0 View Post
Voting ended on February 3rd, the polls are closed.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 12:10 PM   #195
jeremy
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@gor0, it's not included because the first time it was suggested was a full week after the polls closed.

--jeremy
 
  


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