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Old 12-22-2003, 12:36 AM   #1
zetsui
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BSD Newbie


Well I started Mandrake a while back and it was pretty cool, I did like stability, but I think LINUX lacked a lot of simple things, such as a better programming interface for C++. I found it impossible to game program on it, so I had to keep windows (sadly). So I wanted the power of Solaris, but I found out that I needed a SPARC and no 15 year olds parents will get him that
SO I TRIED FreeBSD..... something like Linux, but close to UNIX. I am not AT ALL experienced with config files and all...... and I think the installation sucked, I couldn't even get a GUI. Can someone give me a good guide for BSD, and just a tidbit on the side, if I want to go into heavy C++ and Web Programming what Linux or Unix distro would you reccomend for an UBER NOOB?
 
Old 12-22-2003, 05:45 AM   #2
guygriffiths
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Not sure about the distro, I hear that Mandrake or Redhat are good for newbies. As for Linux not having a good C++ programming interface, what do you consider good? I tried loads of things on Windows, and the best one I found was TextPad which is free. I recommend you learn to use Emacs. A basic tutorial for using it as an IDE can be found here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5765
but if you want a GUI then Anjuta and KDevelop are supposed to be good, although you would need to learn the syntax of GTK or QT if you wanted to create X based applications. For game programming, I would recommend SDL (it's an API). I've never done game programming, but I programmed an XMMS plugin in it, and it's very good for graphics and sound and so on. Think of it as a less developed DirectX for Linux.

As for the whole BSD thing, I don't think it matters if you use BSD or Linux for your programming, as long as you keep it open source, but from what I've heard, BSD is not a newbie OS - I would stick with an easy Linux distro
Hope this helps
Guy
 
Old 12-22-2003, 09:59 AM   #3
jcookeman
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Over at freebsd.org there is an overwhelming amount of documentation including installation, configuration, development and porting ...

If you want Solaris 9 they have released the x86 version available for free download or purchase for media and shipping:
http://survey.sun.com/servlet/viewsf...9_x86_download

Before you jump off in an installation you need to read the documentation over to make sure you are prepared for things to come. Yes, after a Windows or Mandrake install the FreeBSD install seems quite rediculous, but if you read the documentation you will know what to expect.

As far as a C++ programming interface an IDE is just the tip of the iceberg. Go get some documentation on make and don't look back. Before you know it you'll realise that visual studio does nothing but ruin true learning.
 
Old 12-22-2003, 08:07 PM   #4
twilli227
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Here is the freebsd handbook:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...ooks/handbook/

For more info on bsd check this out:
http://www.freebsdforums.org/

You should read the handbook for the bsd that you choose before trying to install, it will go alot smoother if you do. I would stick with mandrake for awhile and learn as much as you can, before heading in the direction of bsd. Just my thoughts, take it or not.
 
Old 01-02-2004, 04:08 PM   #5
nub47
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hmm

I'm under the process of installing fbsd now, and i've just finished reading some docs including the handbook. I would highly recommend you take on Debian or Slackware first, if you ever plan on going towards fbsd. The transition is alot smoother if doing so. I would also suggest that you try Debian FIRST, simply because you'll learn more about linux than Debian.

As for your IDE problem, I think you're looking for something that isn't their. If you weren't comfortable with the interfacs Mandrake provided, those of fbsd would be the same. Ever heard of portage. I think you should look into emacs or kdevelope like someone suggested.
 
Old 01-02-2004, 08:01 PM   #6
Gill Bates
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i got told that freebsd was very hard by other bsd users and that the standard linux user would have trouble adjusting to it. this is not so, it is a little different, but fundamentaly the same and can be picked up as easily as linux was.
so the question is, are u a normal user? or a hacker?
 
Old 01-03-2004, 05:26 AM   #7
RJW
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Define `hacker' for me, please?
 
Old 01-03-2004, 06:54 AM   #8
Gill Bates
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Quote:
Originally posted by RJW
Define `hacker' for me, please?
hacker = someone who learns to use their computer to its full potential, stretch program usage etc...
user = someone who learns the minimum to get what they need done
 
Old 01-03-2004, 07:45 AM   #9
RJW
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WordNet:
Quote:
...
2: a programmer who breaks into computer systems in order to steal or change or destroy information as a form of cyber-terrorism [syn: {cyber-terrorist}, {cyberpunk}]
3: a programmer for whom computing is its own reward; may enjoy the challenge of breaking into other computers but does no harm; "true hackers subscribe to a code of ethics and look down upon crackers"
...
Free On-line Dictionary of Computing:
Quote:
...
4. A person who is good at programming quickly.
5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in "a {Unix} hacker". (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.)
6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.
7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.
8. (Deprecated) A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". The correct term is {cracker}.

The term "hacker" also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see {The Network} and {Internet address}). It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the {hacker ethic}.

It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. Thus while it is gratifying to be called a hacker, false claimants to the title are quickly labelled as "bogus" or a "{wannabee}".

9. (University of Maryland, rare) A programmer who does not understand proper programming techniques and principles and doesn't have a Computer Science degree. Someone who just bangs on the keyboard until something happens. For example, "This program is nothing but {spaghetti code}. It must have been written by a hacker".
To be honest with you: I utterly despise the word `hacker'. It is far too ambiguous, and, more often than not, used way out of context.

Over the many years since it was coined, the meaning, within the computer paradigm, has been morphed and modified to suit the given occasion:

1) One who gains unauthorized access to a system;
2) One who develops: crackers gain unauthorized access to systems (AKA: white-hat, black-hat. Two more terms I find irritating);
3) One who uses his computer to it's full potential;
4) Blah blah blah...

I also find it annoying when one boasts about being a hacker: regardless of the term they are referring.

In fact, I'm willing to bet most of this pathetic jargon was borne by kids in the days of clans and mixed-case sentences (if they can be classed as that -- a sentence that is), and the users of today are just to stupid to realize how dumb it actually sounds. I could, of course, be wrong.
 
Old 01-03-2004, 07:48 AM   #10
Gill Bates
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Quote:
Originally posted by RJW
WordNet:

Free On-line Dictionary of Computing:

To be honest with you: I utterly despise the word `hacker'. It is far too ambiguous, and, more often than not, used way out of context.

Over the many years since it was coined, the meaning, within the computer paradigm, has been morphed and modified to suit the given occasion:

1) One who gains unauthorized access to a system;
2) One who develops: crackers gain unauthorized access to systems (AKA: white-hat, black-hat. Two more terms I find irritating);
3) One who uses his computer to it's full potential;
4) Blah blah blah...

I also find it annoying when one boasts about being a hacker: regardless of the term they are referring.

In fact, I'm willing to bet most of this pathetic jargon was borne by kids in the days of clans and mixed-case sentences (if they can be classed as that -- a sentence that is), and the users of today are just to stupid to realize how dumb it actually sounds. I could, of course, be wrong.
wow, u are spending a lot of energy not liking a word! relax
it is way too ambiguous, but the def i gave above covers most of the 1s u listed above. i used to refer to it as a programmer but nothing in this world is static, especially languages
i hate it when people say hacker instead of cracker - constantly telling them the difference.
it is only a word at the end of the day and i have more interesting things to think about, and more worrying things to worry about. as do we all.

are saying todays jargon with ghetto talk come from the same group?

Last edited by Gill Bates; 01-03-2004 at 09:07 AM.
 
Old 01-03-2004, 08:40 AM   #11
jcookeman
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Quote:
A programmer who does not understand proper programming techniques and principles
A lot of computer science professors would agree on this one.


Quote:
doesn't have a Computer Science degree
That doesn't make sense. There are a zillion computer programmers in industry that don't have a computer science degree.

Quote:
I also find it annoying when one boasts about being a hacker: regardless of the term they are referring.
I happen to have Eric Raymond's latest book and I enjoy it. The way he uses the term is correct. Other people affectionately refer to me as a hacker and I know exactly what they are talking about.

Just because the term is used loosely is not the fault of the hacker community.

Quote:
Over the many years since it was coined, the meaning, within the computer paradigm, has been morphed and modified to suit the given occasion
I think this thread has morphed.

Last edited by jcookeman; 01-03-2004 at 08:42 AM.
 
Old 01-03-2004, 09:48 AM   #12
slakmagik
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Quote:
Originally posted by RJW
In fact, I'm willing to bet most of this pathetic jargon was borne by kids in the days of clans and mixed-case sentences (if they can be classed as that -- a sentence that is), and the users of today are just to stupid to realize how dumb it actually sounds. I could, of course, be wrong.
If you have that link you shouldn't have to bet. Read the Jargon File. And the Art of Unix Programming. And a lot of other stuff. Instead of proper Greek, Latin or German, we *all* (if we are European or of European descent and aren't Germans) speak a bunch of pathetic jargon. That Dante - what an idiot for writing in that crappy Italian instead of proper Latin. And Bacon - writing philosophy in... *shudder* English. Almost as bad as Shakespeare, but at least he wrote mindless entertainment for the ignorant masses.

Hacker's jargon is just part of history and culture. A proper 'computer programmer' is a bored paid stiff churning out the boring code the boss wants. A hacker is having fun.
 
Old 01-04-2004, 05:42 PM   #13
chort
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/hijack on

Well personally I don't think people should stop using the correct application of the word "hacker" just because the mass media and the ignorant sheep subverted the true meaning and use it for their paranoid hysteria. IMHO the more times people see the word used correctly, the more chance there is to "take it back".

I, for one, will not stop using "hacker" just because CNN and FoxNews tell me it's evil.
 
Old 01-05-2004, 01:05 AM   #14
Crito
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Quote:
9. (University of Maryland, rare) A programmer who does not understand proper programming techniques and principles and doesn't have a Computer Science degree. Someone who just bangs on the keyboard until something happens. For example, "This program is nothing but {spaghetti code}. It must have been written by a hacker".
This definition explains quite a lot, actually. A hacker isn't afraid to think "outside the box" and find creative solutions to a problem. This breeds resentment from the establishment and hence, the word has been perverted to suit their egomania. The domain of wise men used to be the Roman Catholic Church, today it's the Universities. And though we don't persecute free thinkers as heretics anymore, they are still ostracized. Better to agree the Earth is flat and receive an A than dare to think it's round and be burned at the stake, I suppose.
 
Old 01-05-2004, 02:25 PM   #15
llama_meme
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Sense 9 of hacker is probably from the more general use of the word for someone who doesn't really know how to do their job. These days, people seem to use "hack" rather than "hacker" for this meaning (e.g. refering to a journalist as a hack).

Alex
 
  


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